Glock 18 or Other Full Auto Handguns: Does it have a use?

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stonewall50

New member
So I am curious about the use of these firearms. I understand the idea of “why not.” But can anyone direct me to legitimate uses of something like a Glock 18 or M93? Like the Glock 18 is for “law enforcement and military only.” So concealed full auto? With a stock I can see the concept I guess. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen LEOs use it. So? Anyone got any history? Any info?
 
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Sharkbite

New member
Even with a tax stamp arent glock 18s pretty hard to get ahold of?
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I dont think there are any transferable G18’s on the registry. Some companies have made conversions based of the slide cover plate, but those are all dealer samples, and only avail to LE.
 
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Jim Watson

New member
Local range got a manufacturer's license and built a Glock 17.5 to rent. Also a M16. Planning an AK47 next.
I didn't know they could DO that.

Another dealer has a number of full autos, many appear to be kit guns made out of surplus parts. They rent a range for an annual machine gun shoot.
I don't see their loophole, either.
 
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Kirosha

New member
It was originally called for by an anti-terrorist agency. Its use would be for breaching and clearing as well as suppression or the brown pants scenario. Typically it would be in use by SWAT or other special departments of LE but military or government use would be the same. I don't believe the G18 would ever be concealed and it is a selective fire pistol.
 
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lee n. field

New member
stonewall50 said:
So I am curious about the use of these firearms. I understand the idea of “why not.” But can anyone direct me to legitimate uses of something like a Glock 18 or M93? Like the Glock 18 is for “law enforcement and military only.” So concealed full auto? With a stock I can see the concept I guess. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen LEOs use it. So? Anyone got any history? Any info?
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Full auto, shoulder stock, and 33 round magazine, and you've got a "PDW" that fills the same niche, for the same people, as the original CZ Skorpion
 
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saleen322

New member
I fired a Beretta 93. It was more a novelty as outside of 10 yards, it is very difficult to keep all shots on even a B-27 target. I shot numerous automatic firearms in my career and this one was the hardest to shoot accurately I ever shot. In semi-automatic mode it was very accurate and it did not have any malfunctions so it looked like the quality was very good. There was also an attachable shoulder stock that did help some but then why not have an automatic carbine if you need the shoulder stock for it to keep it on target? I was glad for the experience but I have no desire to own one. YMMV
 
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dogtown tom

New member
stonewall50 So I am curious about the use of these firearms. I understand the idea of “why not.” But can anyone direct me to legitimate uses of something like a Glock 18 or M93?
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Same "legitimate uses" as any other firearm.



Like the Glock 18 is for “law enforcement and military only.”
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This is due to the 1986 Hughes Amendment to FOPA. It can only transfer to LE or military, and samples to an SOT on a law letter.


So concealed full auto? With a stock I can see the concept I guess. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen LEOs use it. So? Anyone got any history? Any info?
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The Glock 18 is easily controlled without using a shoulder stock. It allows carry in standard holsters and can become a carbine by simply attaching the shoulder stock.

At my last Glock Armorers class the instructor told us that there are several police departments in the US that issue the G18. Glock even provides a special course for departments: https://www.glocktraining.com/files/G18_Course.pdf
 
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dogtown tom

New member
Jim Watson Local range got a manufacturer's license and built a Glock 17.5 to rent. Also a M16. Planning an AK47 next.
I didn't know they could DO that.
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An 07FFL/SOT Manufacturer can build any firearm except for Destructive Devices. They simply report them on a Form 2.

Another dealer has a number of full autos, many appear to be kit guns made out of surplus parts. They rent a range for an annual machine gun shoot.
I don't see their loophole, either.
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It's only a loophole if you are an antigunner. Federal law is clear that all that is needed is an 07FFL/SOT.
 
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Jim Watson

New member
I thought you had to have a request from a government agency to produce a "post 86 sample" even with appropriate licenses.
Not so? You can just crank out whatever you like but have to either keep it or pass it on to another dealer or armed government agency? I saw a daisy chain of small shops building "samples' and passing them around, but that was years ago and thought it had been stopped along with the Clinton elimination of "hobby" dealers.

I am not an anti-gunner, but there is a lot of stuff going on at the fringes of the NFA, GCA, and GOPA that would not pass Quacks Like a Duck scrutiny.
 
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MTT TL

New member
In pistol configuration it is mostly a toy.

In PDW configuration it is useful as a PDW. PDW's can be pretty awesome in their niche.
 
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amd6547

New member
I've seen plenty of YouTube vids that prove the G18 is certainly no toy in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot it.
 
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2wheelwander

New member
FWI, my heresay understanding is there are officially 2 legitimate "escaped" G18's available for civilian transfer. In private ownership.

Take it for what its worth.
 
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dogtown tom

New member
Jim Watson I thought you had to have a request from a government agency to produce a "post 86 sample" even with appropriate licenses.
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Nope. The law letter is only required when transferring a post '86 machine gun to another FFL/SOT.
07FFL/SOT can manufacture them all day long......that's kinda the point of being an 07FFL/SOT.




Not so? You can just crank out whatever you like but have to either keep it or pass it on to another dealer or armed government agency?
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What the 07FFL/SOT manufactures is listed on a Form 2. If he want to transfer or sell to another FFL/SOT it would require a law letter on behalf of the transferee.


I saw a daisy chain of small shops building "samples' and passing them around, but that was years ago and thought it had been stopped
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Since 1934 there has been no "passing around". Transfer any NFA firearm still requires an approved Form 3 or Form 4. Post '86 machine guns are only transferrable to other FFL/SOT's with a law letter or to governmental agencies. If the FFL/SOT discontinues business, he must dispose of all these post '86 machine guns to another 01FFL/SOT w/law letter or to an 07FFL/SOT without one or to a governmental agency.

along with the Clinton elimination of "hobby" dealers.
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There has never been such a thing as a "hobby dealer". The dealer must be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms. It is a myth that Clinton eliminated a bunch of FFL's. In fact ATF gave those "dealers" every opportunity to get legal (obtain a business license, comply with local laws, sales tax permits, zoning, etc.) Most chose to relinquish their FFL rather than get legal. BTW, when they applied for that FFL they certified under penalty of law that they were actually going to be engaged in the business of dealing firearms and would comply with all federal, state and local laws.....in short, many of them flat out lied.


I am not an anti-gunner, but there is a lot of stuff going on at the fringes of the NFA, GCA, and GOPA that would not pass Quacks Like a Duck scrutiny.
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There is absolutely nothing on the fringes. It's either prohibited or regulated or its not. Just because you are unaware of the ability of an 07FFL/SOT to manufacture machine guns doesn't mean it's "at the fringes". For Pete's sake, Colt and Glocks 07FFL/SOT are no different than any other 07FFL/SOT.
 
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