Garand ka-boom

spaniel

New member
Hopefully I can get photos uploaded soon.

Last weekend I was shooting my Garand for the first time in about 3 years. The gun had perhaps 200-300 rounds through it since I got it through the CMP 18 years ago. Almost all these were reloads, a standard mid-range IMR-4895 47gr with a 150gr bullet.

I took out 3 clips. The first fired a nice 100yd group. I loaded the second, and in retrospect I noted that I had to work harder than normal to get the round to chamber. The clip had some corrosion on it but the lip of it put a bit of a groove in the top round as I repeatedly dropped the bolt to get it to chamber. Not unheard of in the rifle, but perhaps excessive.

The first 4-5 rounds fired fine, and my spotter put them right into the nice tight group from the first clip. Then I pulled the trigger again, and the gun came apart in my face. I was on the bench, so I was lucky that the worst damage was a small pinpoint bleed on my left arm with powder burns and the hair singed off.

The stock disintegrated. Most of the mag parts were ruined and the rounds bent/destroyed. I have not found the meta bottom plate to the action.

I wish I'd photographed the action before I beat it open but I did not. From memory the bolt appeared normal -- CLOSED -- although the ejector on top was visibly protruded. Once I got the case out, it was clear that it had detonated and fire formed approximately 1/8" outside full chambering. So the shoulder was blown forward and there was a false case head in front of the real one, which ruptured out the bottom.

Of course my first thought was "I screwed up reloading" but after seeing the case I do not believe this is the case. I was paranoid reloading for the Garand, so I measured shoulder position on each case individually, double-weighed the charge manually, and checked the final seating length of each cartridge. Cases were only once-fired, by me. Even after a gun rupture with the case locked in the chamber, the op rod is in fine condition and my understanding is most over-pressure rounds resulting in gun rupture will include a broken/bent op rod.

The bottom portion of the bolt face was broken off. The easiest explanation is out-of-batter discharge, but the design of the gun should have prevented that and the after-inspection showed that lugs were engaged and the case did remain locked in the chamber.

At this point my best guess is that perhaps the gun suffered wear-related damage on the previous shot and the bolt fractured. The next round chambered was not fully chambered due to the bolt damage, despite locked lugs, and pulling the trigger resulted in case rupture discharging the energy through the magazine.

I'm interesting in opinions on cause of failure by those familiar with function. I'm not interested in critique of my reloading technique by those lacking any real information as to what was done. 20+ years reloading with zero issues and this being the ammo I was most anal with, each round each step double checked, I'm not buying it.

I'm also interested in information as to the salvageability of the receiver. While the bolt, stock, trigger group, and most internals are toast, I see no damage to the receiver. But I'm not an expert with the design so I remain concerned as to where some wear could have caused things to become out of tolerance enough to lead to this issue.
 

tahunua001

New member
sounds like you're way more anal retentive about your loads than I am with mine. even when I was loading for a low serial springfield a bit noted for their higher than average KaBOOM rate) I never double weighed everything.

I've seen a movie very similar to what you were describing leading up to a Kaboom, I've never had my garand fail to go to battery or fail to feed but all my enblocs are surpisingly rust free.

here's a link to that video.
 

FrankenMauser

New member
I'm glad you're okay.

But you should never be so arrogant as to refuse to acknowledge that you could have made a mistake. We're human. We all screw up now and then.



I've seen a movie very similar to what you were describing leading up to a Kaboom, I've never had my garand fail to go to battery or fail to feed but all my enblocs are surpisingly rust free.

here's a link to that video.
That one was caused by a squib, from what I remember of the original discussion.
It makes sense, based on her (the shooter's) actions, as well.
 

1stmar

New member
I saw that you measured the shoulder. Do you full length resize ? How clean was the chamber and how much are you pushing the shoulder back ?
 
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stagpanther

New member
I kind of notice these ka-booms occur a lot to people who reload. Of course they try to blame the gun.
I didn't see where the OP tried to blame anything.

Implying that reloading ups the probability of catastrophic failure--your opinion is shared by the gun industry since many, if not most, state that warranties are invalidated by the use of hand-loads.

I've been a hand-loader for decades--and the percentage of failures of FTF's, squibs, ruptured cases, variations in cartridge dimensions and charge weights in factory ammo has far exceeded those failures in my hand loads. We like to think that guns we purchased are similarly uniform in quality. They're not. Almost 50% of the firearms I have purchased have had an issue of some sort. Minor things have a way of becoming major things over time.

All that said, the OP has not stated what the specs (measurements) of his hand-loads were, what conditions they were stored in etc. Using a weapon that had been in storage for a very long time--as well as ammo left in the magazines--perhaps points to the necessity of a close examination of both weapon and cartridges--for example, if the cartridges had little or no crimp it's conceivable seating tolerances could easily have changed, especially if they were compressed loads.
 
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Bayou

New member
OP -

You may wish to post your thread over in the CMP forum as there are highly experienced and dedidicated M-1 Garand afficianados there.

You may get additional comments and insights.
 

Dave P

New member
Two thoughts. Make that three

1) You did not say how deep you press in your primers. I say pockets should be reamed to proper depth after each reload. Properly seated primer is maybe 3-5 mils into the case. You can see that, and feel that with your finger.

If primers are flush with case head, much greater chance of that heavy, floating firing pin setting of the primer too early. What primers do you use??

2) Sitting in storage for years could allow grease/goop/bugs/rust to jam your firing pin, so that it does not slide freely anymore. This can cause the primer to fire too soon.

3) and of course the tail end on FP rides on a safety bridge that is designed to not allow the FP to move forward until the bolt is locked in place. FP tails do get worn out.
 

Mobuck

Moderator
Sounds like a "typical out-of-battery" ignition. Your ammo was out of spec or corroded and failed to chamber fully.
The bolt could not possibly have been fully closed if the case was expanded as you described.
 

kraigwy

New member
I'm also interested in information as to the salvageability of the receiver. While the bolt, stock, trigger group, and most internals are toast, I see no damage to the receiver. But I'm not an expert with the design so I remain concerned as to where some wear could have caused things to become out of tolerance enough to lead to this issue.

I wasn't there, I didn't inspect the gun, nor have I seen pictures so I wont speculate as to the reason.

BUT: I know Garand's and can address this questions.

If you consult Hatcher's Book of The Garand, and other such references, I think you'll find, that since the receiver is as you described, you can replace the damaged parts, and put your gun in SAFE WORKING ORDER.

The CMP E-Store will probably have most if not all the parts you need to replace. I cant examine your gas system, but I would assume its not damaged. That part would be hard to find and will be pricy.

Again, refer to Hatcher. He writes that its nearly impossible to damage a Garand Receiver to the point it cant be used.

My recommendations is, to gather the parts, and send them to the CMP Gun smithing service. If they deem parts are unsafe, they wont use them.

Not everyone with a head space gage is not a Garand Smith.

I attended the CMPs Advanced Maint. Course and I can assure you, those people know what they are doing.
 

mehavey

New member
KraigWt said:
My recommendations is, to gather the parts, and send them to the CMP Gun smithing...
+1 MegaDittos

Spaniel said:
I repeatedly dropped the bolt to get it to chamber....
Can you expand on that a bit ? Like any accident investugation, the objective is to constantly need to get smarter/learn what to look/watch out for in the future for all of us..
 

AK103K

New member
I kind of notice these ka-booms occur a lot to people who reload. Of course they try to blame the gun.
While I do reload for my Garands, my DCM gun went grenade with factory/DCM issue LC 69 on the first outing. What I thought was "doubling" during the rapid fire stages was actually the gun firing out of battery (discovered later when the brass was recovered and the necks were blown out). Luckily, the gun didnt cut loose then, when it was in my shoulder. It happened during the slow fire prone stage when the rifle wasnt in my shoulder.

Reloading for the M1's/M1A's isnt really a big deal, but you do need to pay attention to some things. A case headspace gauge and a primer depth gauge are handy things to have. Commercial brass is a lot easier to work with, and usually has a longer life to boot. If youre going to use military, make sure the primer pockets are properly dealt with, and the cases are sized properly.

In the case of the M1's, when single loading, a SLED should be used. Contrary to what we were taught, dropping a round in the chamber, and letting the bolt fly, is not the proper thing to do. If you insist on not using the SLED, then slip the round in the chamber into the chamber, and lower the bolt easily onto it, and lock the bolt with a push from the heel of your hand.
 

Slamfire

New member
What sort of primers did you use and how did you set up your sizing dies?

You may wish to post your thread over in the CMP forum as there are highly experienced and dedidicated M-1 Garand afficianados there.

I have been over there and what I read was a bunch of slamfire deniers, as there are slamfire deniers in this thread. These guys believe that Garands only slamfire due to "high primers and your worn out receiver bridge". This is of course, nonsense, as the primary slamfire mechanism in these rifles is sensitive commercial primers. This nonsense is also a religion for the "Gunsmiths" who work for the CMP.

You are not the first to have an out of battery slamfire in a Garand mechanism nor will you be the last.

So, what primers did you use and how did you set up your sizing dies?

I'm also interested in information as to the salvageability of the receiver. While the bolt, stock, trigger group, and most internals are toast, I see no damage to the receiver. But I'm not an expert with the design so I remain concerned as to where some wear could have caused things to become out of tolerance enough to lead to this issue

If your receiver looks like this, it is unusable









 
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spaniel

New member
"But you should never be so arrogant as to refuse to acknowledge that you could have made a mistake."

I did no such thing. In fact I assumed it was entirely my fault until the physical evidence eliminated that. So now it just isn't productive to spend time debating points the physical evidence has eliminated.
 

spaniel

New member
"The bolt is not used to size brass. FL die are . "

This is the sort of useless comment which kept me from initially even posting this. The bolt had to work to get the round to release from an unusually tight clip, not to pound it into the chamber. This was evident with some attention to reading.

To others - yes, I'll work to get some pics up and look up the specs of the rounds. I don't recall the exact numbers but CMP ammo was used to get the baseline measurements I followed. Yes, full length sized, as any sane person shooting a semi auto does.
 
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