Shane Tuttle
Staff
STILL haven't called Hornady yet. It's going to have to wait until I get back in town in mid Feb...
Frustrated: Hornady New Dimension Die Set
- Thread starter Shane Tuttle
- Start date
Regular carbide dies are made from Tungsten Carbide (WC).
Titanium Nitride (TiN) is so hard that it is applied with electro chemical application to the metal surfaces, where it penetrates into the metal and coats the outside surface in a very thin layer.
HARDNESS
The hardness of TiN coatings is difficult to measure as the coatings are exceptionally hard and the thinness of the coating causes conventional hardness tests to penetrate into the substrate. Nanoindentation hardness tests are required for accurate readings.
Vickers Hardness Scale rates Tungsten Carbide at a hardness of 22 GPa (gigapascal).
Vickers Hardness Scale rates Titanium Nitride at a hardness of 24.5 GPa (gigapascal).
The Titanium Nitride is much harder.
Titanium Nitride (TiN) is so hard that it is applied with electro chemical application to the metal surfaces, where it penetrates into the metal and coats the outside surface in a very thin layer.
HARDNESS
The hardness of TiN coatings is difficult to measure as the coatings are exceptionally hard and the thinness of the coating causes conventional hardness tests to penetrate into the substrate. Nanoindentation hardness tests are required for accurate readings.
Vickers Hardness Scale rates Tungsten Carbide at a hardness of 22 GPa (gigapascal).
Vickers Hardness Scale rates Titanium Nitride at a hardness of 24.5 GPa (gigapascal).
The Titanium Nitride is much harder.
Master Blaster
New member
I have about 4-5,000 rounds on a set of .45 acp new dimension dies, in my LNL ap, and have no problems, I also have a set of carbide dies for a dillon 550, and loaded on them for years. The Hornady TiN dies resize .45 cases easier than the carbide dies from my experience, I was surprised myself.
Shoney,
As you wrote:
So, the pure chemical is hard. But, in effect, its coating on a die surface is not so hard, because it is so thin that it is the underlying steel that actually resists pentration by a piece of sand or expansion when forcing an over-size object into the die.
That is not true for a tungsten carbide ring insert, as used in carbide dies (or titanium CARBIDE insert as used in Redding dies.) They are almost as hard, and MUCh more rigid. That makes then more capable of sizing without lubrication while avoiding stuck cases.
SL1
As you wrote:
So, the pure chemical is hard. But, in effect, its coating on a die surface is not so hard, because it is so thin that it is the underlying steel that actually resists pentration by a piece of sand or expansion when forcing an over-size object into the die.
That is not true for a tungsten carbide ring insert, as used in carbide dies (or titanium CARBIDE insert as used in Redding dies.) They are almost as hard, and MUCh more rigid. That makes then more capable of sizing without lubrication while avoiding stuck cases.
SL1
jaguarxk120
New member
Call Hornady and talk to tech support. The carbide insert for a 9mm is totally different from other pistol dies. A 9mm is not a straight walled case, it is tapered and the insert is much longer inside the die body, I just looked at my 9mm RCBS.
If you look back at carbide die history, the 9mm was one of the last to be available to handloaders due to the case being tapered. All other pistol cases are usually a straightwalled case and the hardened insert only had a very small contact with the case when sizing.
Call Hornady, the customer service is very good.
If you look back at carbide die history, the 9mm was one of the last to be available to handloaders due to the case being tapered. All other pistol cases are usually a straightwalled case and the hardened insert only had a very small contact with the case when sizing.
Call Hornady, the customer service is very good.
Sounds like the TiN dies are full-length tapered dies (like steel dies) with a hard slipperly coating. That should be a good system, but it also has a lot more bearing surface than a die with a carbide ring. I would use a tiny bit of lube with them -- I sometimes do that when I size 9mm using carbide dies, and I always lube .30 Carbine cases even tho I have carbide dies.
Try using Kiwi Mink Oil (shoe leather treatment) and just touch the surface occasionally with your thumb or finger that you use to pick up the cases. That'll transfer just enough to lube them. Or you can spray the cases *lightly* with Gunk Silicone Spray and let them dry (this stuff can kill primers if you don't let it dry)
If you have a .38 Special sizing die, you can use it for 9mm and the cases will size much easier. The down-side is you'll overwork the brass and they might not last as long. I tried it once just to see if it would work (and it did) but decided to stop because I didn't want the cases splitting on me after I loaded them a couple of times
Of couse, you could do this and only size the top half of the case...
Try using Kiwi Mink Oil (shoe leather treatment) and just touch the surface occasionally with your thumb or finger that you use to pick up the cases. That'll transfer just enough to lube them. Or you can spray the cases *lightly* with Gunk Silicone Spray and let them dry (this stuff can kill primers if you don't let it dry)
If you have a .38 Special sizing die, you can use it for 9mm and the cases will size much easier. The down-side is you'll overwork the brass and they might not last as long. I tried it once just to see if it would work (and it did) but decided to stop because I didn't want the cases splitting on me after I loaded them a couple of times
Of couse, you could do this and only size the top half of the case...No! The TiN penetrates a long way into the metal and is applied until it entirely coats the surface of the subtrate metal. It will not wear out in your liftime from abbrasion.
When they started testing hardness, the conventional manner was by applying a force to a microspot on the metal, be it lead, copper, carbide, or whatever. They found TiN didn't dent until a tremendous force was applied, and that the force actually smashed the crystaline structure of the metal below the TiN impregnation, not the TiN.
It is also used to coat tungsten carbide to make it harder.
Now that would make a great die, but would be expensive overkill.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Update:
I contacted Hornady yesterday and talked to a gentleman named Todd. We troubleshot the die by taking measurements, etc. He's dumbfounded as to why this is happening. Nonetheless, he's sending me a new die no questions asked. He was very cordial even though they're busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. He said they're working 60 hours a week, seven days just to keep their heads above the water. Their employee numbers have tripled as of late and no end in sight for a slowdown...
I contacted Hornady yesterday and talked to a gentleman named Todd. We troubleshot the die by taking measurements, etc. He's dumbfounded as to why this is happening. Nonetheless, he's sending me a new die no questions asked. He was very cordial even though they're busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. He said they're working 60 hours a week, seven days just to keep their heads above the water. Their employee numbers have tripled as of late and no end in sight for a slowdown...
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Coincidentally, I just received my replacement die last week. They botched the replacement order the first goaround. I was a bit perturbed with the issue of waiting, but at least they were happy to send me another die. Once I get more 9mm bullets in, I'll try it out. Might be a while, though with the backorders and all....
BigJakeJ1s
New member
Nope, Hornady TiN dies have a sizing ring, just like the carbide ring in carbide pistol dies. The rest of the die does not touch the case.
Andy
lll Otto lll
New member
So it took 2 months for a replacement? Gee, that was fast...
Shane Tuttle
Staff
Well, after almost a year later I finally tried out the new sizer I received. To be honest, I loaded up a few thousand last year using another set on my single stage so I was set.
I started completely from scratch on all the die settings. One change I made was instead of backing off a full turn on the sizing die, I only backed off about 1/3 turn. On the seating die, I backed off the "crimp" just a hair. So far, they pass dimensional checks and the bullets don't sink now. If work permits, I'm going to try my sample loads out this weekend.
I started completely from scratch on all the die settings. One change I made was instead of backing off a full turn on the sizing die, I only backed off about 1/3 turn. On the seating die, I backed off the "crimp" just a hair. So far, they pass dimensional checks and the bullets don't sink now. If work permits, I'm going to try my sample loads out this weekend.