Frustrated: Hornady New Dimension Die Set

[Shane Tuttle]

I bought Hornady's ne Dimension Die Set for my 9mm a while back to give their dies a shot. Quite a bit of advertising hype was surrounding their features such as titanium nitride, zip spindle, headed decapping pin, etc.

Actually, I do like most of the features povided. However, the sizing die is about to be pitched as far as I can throw it...

I used to lube EVERY pistol case before sizing. In the past few years, I accepted the fact that a freshly polished/cleaned case from the tumbler can be easily sized with carbide or better dies. Rifle cases are the exception now.

Hornady touted that the titanium nitride process provides a "lube free" operation. On the contrary, after cleaning the die and getting it set up, my cases stuck like white on rice. I had to end up lubing several of my cases to get things going. After about 100-200 rounds, I started to insert every other case unlubed. After about another 100 rounds, the die started to size OK without lubing any cases, but it still required more effort than other dies that I have for other cartridges.

Over time, it seemed that this was going to be OK. Fast forward about 1000 rounds. I perform routine cleanings/inspections of my dies to make sure there's no problems. When I inspected the sizing surface of the die, it had what looked like a thin buildup of lube along the walls. I made sure that the cases weren't transferring anything and also the cases weren't damaged.

I cleaned off the "buildup". On to sizing I went. Lo, and behold, I'm back to square one. My first case stuck again.

Does anybody else have this issue? I don't have any problems using my RCBS and Redding dies on my other cartridges. I'm thinking of ditching the Hornady sizing die and buy another RCBS or Redding.

 

[Don H]

Have you talked to Hornady about the issue?

 

[vranasaurus]

I use Lee carbide pistol dies in 45, 44, and 9mm and have never used or had to use lube on the cases.

 

[Fox1]

My first die from Hornady was the 9mm New Dimension and I've never had any problems and I've loaded around 3,000 rounds with it so far.

I wonder if it is something other than the die itself.

What did you use to clean the dies when you first unpacked them?
I used Birchwood Casey spray-on gun scrubber on mine.

What kind of media are you initially cleaning your brass in?
The first cleaning my casings get is just plain old crushed corn cob media.

One other thing you can try (it's free) is to call Hornady and tell them about your experience. They will probably send out a new sizing die.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Have you talked to Hornady about the issue?

Not yet. I don't see any visible flaws with the die, but that doesn't mean anything. For the record, I don't have a formed opinion if the die set is good or not. I'm just running into the issue again. Thought I had a fluke on the first run of reloading 9mm. Last night was the second time experiencing this.

For others that may take this thread the wrong way: I'm not saying anything of the nature that Hornady makes a crappy die set. I'm just in the middle of working a problem out that may or may not be Hornady's problem...

I use Lee carbide pistol dies in 45, 44, and 9mm and have never used or had to use lube on the cases.

Thanks for your input. It's really appreciated. But, I'm not looking for what works. That's a known for me if I don't get the Hornady die issue fixed.

What did you use to clean the dies when you first unpacked them?

Hoppe's #9, degreaser, then Eezox.

What kind of media are you initially cleaning your brass in?

Walnut, corn with MidwayUSA media polish, then mild soap/water. I've used this method sans soap/water for years. I don't think it's the soap/water because I cleaned some other cartridges the same way recently and already reloaded them (using a different die set). The brass is spic & span.

One other thing you can try (it's free) is to call Hornady and tell them about your experience. They will probably send out a new sizing die.

I'm sure they will. But I want to make sure that I've discussed with some other people (i.e. fellow TFL members) and see if I have the bases covered before I call. I don't like calling businesses right off the bat until I've tried to eliminate the obvious issues first.

 

[Sevens]

One thing worth mentioning is that the 9mm round, contrary to popular opinion, is not a straight walled case even though we look at it as one, refer to it as one... it's not. It's tapered, kind of like the .30 Carbine is tapered. No doubt, it's a tricky one in most any sizing die. The sizer wants to make that case mouth THE proper spec, but it also has to deal with the case head that it slightly larger than the case mouth.

I use Lee Carbide dies. All I'd ever heard and read with carbide dies is no lube, no lube, and then one day, some folks talked about a little lube, even with a carbide die, to make it a little less work.

So I tried a little lube, Imperial, on a 9mm case and ran it through the carbide sizer.

WOW. It's like half the effort or less. I love it. Sure, lubing cases is a PITA, but this isn't like a bottle neck rifle round that will get completely siezed up in there without lube, or without enough. So I typically lube up like 15 or 20 or 30 cases and sit them on the bench, then as I dig out brass to run through the sizing die, I'll grab a lubed one like every 3rd or 5th case. Makes the whole damn thing a lot easier.

Hell, I use a little bit of lube on most every caliber just because it makes things go so darn smoothly.

So-- your bench has RCBS, Redding, and now Hornady. You aren't liking the Hornady, so rather than buying another RCBS, why not try the cheapest one on the market? So damn many folks use Lee dies... most report success. I have Lee dies in like a dozen calibers and they just kick butt for me. My oldest set was bought more than 20 years ago and works as well as it did the first day I had 'em.

Skip the FCD, just get a carbide set, or depending on where you shop-- just the carbide sizer. Heck, the whole set is like $25. Can't go wrong.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

So-- your bench has RCBS, Redding, and now Hornady.

Just for clarification, I didn't go through all these brands for the 9mm. I simply stated that I use these die sets without issue. Here's the breakdown:

9mm: Hornady, as mentioned
.40SW: RCBS
.45ACP: Redding
All rifles: Redding

Sorry for the confusion. One more thing, I'm not ruling out Lee if I need to buy another die. I used their 3n1 set for my 9mm when I was loading on a single stage for pistol. I had no issues at all with Lee's then, either.

 

[vranasaurus]

My poitn was that you should never have to use lube with Carbide pistol dies. Therefore I would call Hornady and get it fixed.

 

[Mike40-11]

Strange. I use New Dimensions in .45 and .44 but my 9mm are Lee. All carbide and no lube on any of them.

I like the New Dimensions. I did manage to break my .45 seating die, but that was me. Not enough bell, shaving lead, not cleaning out the seater, stuck it and crunched it.

 

[lll Otto lll]

Walnut, corn with MidwayUSA media polish, then mild soap/water. I've used this method sans soap/water for years. I don't think it's the soap/water because I cleaned some other cartridges the same way recently and already reloaded them (using a different die set). The brass is spic & span.

Stop washing the cases, it strips off the residual media polish which helps lubricate the case.
I've noticed the same issue when tumbling with wet ceramic media.
Also, I would refrain from using Eezox. The dies simply need to be de-greased rather than lubricated with a CLP.

 

[Alanjtc73n]

Is the vent hole near the top of the die clear? If not, it will create suction causing a stuck case. Especially if the case is lubed. Like everyone else said before, you shouldn't need lube with a carbide die. I've got the same dies and love them. I had an issue with a .308 die leaving a small mark on my brass and they sent over another body free of charge. Great customer service.

 

[roc1]

I had a problem with a Hornady die they replaced it no problem.Give them a call.
roc1

 

[SL1]

Hornady Nitride is not same as Carbide

I ended up NOT buying one, so correct me if I am wrong.

But, from my discussions with Hornady, I believe their nitride coating is a thin coating such as is applied to some drill bits, not a thick ring of machined material like the carbide ring inserts used in carbide dies.

The nitride coating is slippery, but it is not as hard or rigid as the carbide insert. Hornady told me they had tried to make a nitride-coated steel sizing die for the bottle-neck 357 Sig case, but found that it needed lube, so they decided not to market it. Probably similar issue with the tapered 9mm case.

SL1

 

[cgaengineer]

I have the nitride Hornady die and no lube required for me, in fact I also have an RCBS non carbide and I don't use lube for it either? I think you should contact Hornady for a replacement.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

My poitn was that you should never have to use lube with Carbide pistol dies. Therefore I would call Hornady and get it fixed.

True. I thought you were suggesting what brand to buy next.

Stop washing the cases, it strips off the residual media polish which helps lubricate the case.
I've noticed the same issue when tumbling with wet ceramic media.
Also, I would refrain from using Eezox. The dies simply need to be de-greased rather than lubricated with a CLP.

I reread my post and I don't think I made my point clear. My first batch of 9mm wasn't washed with soap/water and it did the exact same thing as described. I tried the soap/water method on the second batch to see if it would make any difference. It still bound up on me.

You do have a point that it strips the residual media polish. But, a normal carbide die wouldn't care about this. It should still size without issue.

The method of applying Eezox isn't for the lubrication, rather for rust prevention. Although, I might not use it during the next cleaning cycle and see if this may be the culprit...

Is the vent hole near the top of the die clear? If not, it will create suction causing a stuck case.

The vent hole is clear. I made sure of this during the cleaning process. But, I think it's worth another look....wouldn't hurt.

I had a problem with a Hornady die they replaced it no problem.Give them a call.
roc1

I got home right at 5pm today and didn't quite make it before they closed. I think the best thing to do now is just call the experts after I try the aforementioned suggestions.

I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

FWIW, my Hornady Nitride 454 Casul dies work just fine (for 45 colt).

Andy

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Just an update: I haven't had the chance to call Hornady yet. Hopefully Monday I can get ahold of them. I've started another batch without cleaning the nitrided surface this time. It's almost back to normal on the effort to size. It's still stiff, but smooth and doesn't grab.

I'm anxious to find the time to call....

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The nitride coating is slippery, but it is not as hard or rigid as the carbide insert.

According to CH4D, titanium nitride is both harder and has a lower coefficient of friction than carbide (they did not specify tungsten carbide or titanium carbide). Since it is a coating, it may not be as rigid as carbide, but that depends on the material under the coating. The coefficient of friction of a TiN coated surface probably has a lot to do with the roughness of the underlying material.

Bottleneck cartridges usually require enough surface area contact to resize the case that the resulting friction is too much even for carbide or TiN, thus lubricant is still reequired and/or recommended. Carbide or TiN sizing dies for straight wall pistol cartridges use only a ring of the carbide/TiN to resize the case, which reduces surface area contact and thereby friction.

Andy

 

[oneounceload]

I have their dies in 9mm - have never had an issue with them regarding sizing, but then I don't do all that fancy cleaning - brass goes to a tumbler with corn cob and then into the die - works just fine for me

 

[mrayw]

hornady

I use hornady and lee pistol dies with no lube and no problem. Recommend you call hornady. They will take care of you.