Friday Feral Field Lion DOWN!!! Called in... NO PICS...

[shortwave]

My determination of feral cat versus pet, mirrors that of hogdogs.

Too, the logic of the reason for the feral cat epidemic that Hansam expresses, I also agree with. That being that its a human created problem.

It's very simple:
Pet owners should keep their pets at home...and I should add...should keep their pets under control when they are with them away from home.

It's not my neighbors job to clean after my pets. My neighbor shouldn't fear walking out his/her own house to meet my 135lb. shepherd showing his teeth at them any more then that same neighbor should have to be working in their flower bed with the pleasant aroma of my cat using their flower bed as a litter box.

For some strange reason, many cat owners seem to think it's ok to let their feline's run free. Here in the country,that seems to be the general attitude.
I will also say that here in the country, it is generally accepted that if my pet is on my neighbors property disturbing them and my pet doesn't come home, I have no gripe.
Therefore, since I love my pets, I've taken the time(many hours)and expense of proper training to insure my neighbors are not bothered by my pets.

Again, my pets are my responsibility.

 

[MLeake]

Funny, where I grew up (Maine suburbs) indoor cats were a rarity. Cats roamed; that's what cats did.

There was even a speech written on this (before I was born) by Adlai Stevenson, regarding a leash law bill.

Meanwhile, based on the past couple days, the threat to birds around here seems to come from my west facing windows... Woodpecker yesterday, Starling this morning... We should ban windows, or require images of raptors or snakes be painted on them.

Edit: Another thought - How many of the people here, who are ostensibly worried about damage to bird populations (stated primary reason for wanting to shoot or control feral cats) were in favor of killing the Keystone Pipeline? I ask this because my in-laws (bird watchers, though my FIL is also a turkey hunter) were opposed to the Keystone, as it would have run fairly close to where we live, and theoretically threatened bird populations in Nebraska and Missouri in the event of a spill. Yet an awful lot of people were more concerned about possible pipeline building jobs, or possible reductions in net oil prices, than they were about birds.

So, again, what makes people any better than or different from cats?

 

[rickyrick]

Regular food and water, and a cat won't roam. Mine stay in the yard. Even at my buddy's that feeds the cats at his farm, they dont go anywhere. So, its a matter of feeding them to keep them home. Dogs need some type of containment, unless performing a task in which they were trained.

 

[MLeake]

Since you mention that, rickyrick: My parents regularly put out food and water for their semi-adopted cat, yet she still roams the neighborhood where they live. Turns out four or five families have adopted that same cat, and they also put out food and water.

I think it depends on what options exist for the cat.

Meanwhile, I'm a dog person. We either use containment, or are out with the dogs, or else the dogs are inside with us. I'm less worried about my dogs doing harm, than I am about them encountering fast-moving cars, but I realize that dogs can have radical behavior changes if they hook up with a pack. Best to avoid the whole thing. If one of my dogs does manage to pull a Houdini, their dog tags all have my wife's and my cell phone numbers. (This has come in handy before; some dogs are very creative about getting over or under fences.)

Other than keeping a cat in the house, or a screened porch, or a cat carrier, I don't know of any outdoor enclosure that will reliably contain a cat.

 

[shortwave]

Funny, where I grew up (Maine suburbs) indoor cats were a rarity. Cats roamed; that's what cats did.

Yep, that's what they did in the neighborhood I grew up in as well. And the non cat owners of the neighborhood didn't like it any better then than they do today. The same laws that apply to dogs should apply to felines as well. IMO, again, part of responsible pet ownership whether the pet be lions,tigers,bears, K9's or cats is keep them at your own house.
I've got my own to take care of.

Where I presently live, we have a neighbor that puts dog and cat food out on their side porch for all the strays people tend to drop off in rural areas. This area is notorious for stray, unwanted pets. These same neighbors can't seem to figure out why they can't keep coons from burrowing under their house and don't understand why they have such a rat/mouse/opposum problem. The old guy called me about the coons living in their crawl space. As we were talking he also explained that he didn't understand the rat/mouse problem in his house with all the cats around.
With respect, I suggested that they not put out on their porch a daily ten course meal for every rodent known to man. He replied that he/wife felt sorry for all the strays people drop off and feel the need to feed them.


At any rate, these strays eventually make their way down the lane to my house were they are eventually eliminated. Now I've got animals and am responsible for their health and vet bills. Their are many diseases transmitted from animal to animal and since I care for my pets, I don't feel the obligation to have one of my pets get sick cause some irresponsible human let their pets run free or didn't want them any more and dropped them off in the country.


As many as I've eliminated over the years, there just never seems to be an end to the supply.

My parents regularly put out food and water for their semi-adopted cat, yet she still roams the neighborhood where they live. Turns out four or five families have adopted that same cat, and they also put out food and water

MLeake,
I have a question for you along the lines of regularly setting food out for strays.

If a person is setting food out for a 'semi-adopted' stray and that stray causes another person harm or financial hardship, should the semi-adoptive owner/owners be held responsible for damages?

 

[Art Eatman]

I dunno how many hundred thousand miles of oil and gas pipelines there are in the US. Spill-type leaks are a rarity. The pipelines have automatic shutdowns for pressure drops.

The volume of spillage is low. Maybe cover an acre or three? Not enough to hurt any bird population beyond the occasional ground-nesting sort's nest. Far more birds are lost to wind generators and TV/radio towers.

But the nationwide total of "all of the above" is much less than what feral cats do in each and every individual state.

 

[MLeake]

shortwave, I tend to agree that putting out a buffet for random critters is unwise. When my wife had barn cats, their food was put up on a rafter, where the cats could get it, but most of the other critters that might be able to get it would have to run the cat gauntlet.

As far as my parents and their neighbors... I guess they don't worry about raccoons and opossums (Florida; they have plenty of both).

With regard to your liability question, what extreme would you like to use? Should a person who puts out a bird feeder or keeps berry-bearing trees and bushes bear liability for the neighbor's car washing costs? Or should people who put out salt licks for deer be liable for any potential damage done to area crops, by deer transiting to and from the licks?

It's an easy game to play, really, just keep going up a notch.

My basic take on the lot, though, is that animals behave like animals. If you need to control them due to potential harms to your livestock, crops, etc, then so be it. My point is that it is a utilitarian argument, not a moral argument. Some people here are demonizing the critters for acting like critters, as though they need a moral justification. My point is that if they have a real need, they have a real need. If they don't, then it really comes down to they like to shoot stuff because they can.

In which case, they are no different from the cats.

So, people either have a real reason to control the beasts (which they might well have - protection of property, control of disease vectors, defense of locally threatened species could all be valid), or else people, like the cats, like to kill things when they can, in which case their moral arguments seem very hypocritical.

I've known quite a few guys who liked to shoot things because they could. I am not one of those guys, but there are a lot of them out there.

 

[shortwave]

With regard to your liability question, what extreme would you like to use?

The extreme that comes to mind is one that's really no an extreme at all.

Dog shows up at my house. I feed this dog for a couple years. He sleeps and loafs around my house. When he's out running the neighborhood and gets hungry he knows since I've been feeding him for the last couple years, right where to come to get his groceries. Yet I have never officially claimed him,taken him to the vet, bought tags for him, etc. He's around my house cause I kept feeding him.
One day the dog jumps on a neighbor kid and chews him up. Should I be held accountable or should I be able to tell LE or DW the dogs not mine?

My basic take on the lot, though, is that animals behave like animals.

Agree, and so many times are behaving the way they are due to the direct actions of an irresponsible human.
Another short story:
A fellow worker(jerk) I used to work with, used to come into work bragging about doing his monthly cat extermination around his farm. He had 15-20 adult cats that were continually breeding, throwing litters of kittens. This moron would gather up the kittens in a burlap bag and sling em in the creek. He must have thought it made him look tuff or something cause he always came into work bragging about doing this.
I'd usually walked off but had just had enough one day and told him off quite proper. He stood there with his mouth agape when I told him (among things not permissible to repeat here on TFL) the secret to having animals is being smarter then the animal. And why didn't he take the responsibility of having the adult cats fixed so they wouldn't have offspring. His only response was he couldn't afford to have all the cats fixed.
My response, as I walked off PO'ed was, he had to many cats then.

He and I never really speak much after that.

I've known quite a few guys who liked to shoot things because they could. I am not one of those guys, but there are a lot of them out there.

Yes there are. I'm not one of those but make no bones about eliminating strays as needed as humanely as possible.

 

[dayman]

I agree with MLeake that there are some people out there that seem to enjoy killing for the sake of killing even more than feral cats do. It's too bad as a fairly small number of people give hunters and gun owners in general a bad reputation.
That being said, I completely understand eliminating animals when they become pests, or are putting your pets/livestock/property at risk. I've had to shoot countless squirrels to keep them out of the house, and I've even shot a few feral cats that came around looking for a fight.
So I can see both sides.
The biggest thing I got from this story though, is that next time I do have to kill something I should seize the opportunity to turn the experience into a good story.

 

[Art Eatman]

Nuff fer now. This subject will come up again, for sure...

 

[hogdogs]

YEPPER... It will... gonna do some field lion callin' today and this eve...

Brent

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

That was weird. I know Art closed this.