stagpanther
New member
Shouldn't need them with the Aero enhanced upper since the hand guard is fitted directly to the receiver and does not require timing/positioning of the barrel nut to be involved.
Follow Along for my First AR Build
- Thread starter Brian Pfleuger
- Start date
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Scorch said:
Well, you see... it shoots terribly without a barrel and not much better when it had one.
Barrel arrived back at McGowen on Monday... as for the promised "in and out same day"... I haven't heard a word from them. I only know it arrived from tracking.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Metal god said:
No, I'd honestly RATHER they swapped it out.
I just got a call from them... they suspect, of course, that it's everyone's fault but theirs.
First, it was the gas block
Him: "I can see soot where it wasn't lined up with the gas port"
Me: "Ok, how would that make the bolt lock up solid?"
Him, "Well it wouldn't".
Me: "Then that's not the problem"
Him: "Can you send us your bolt?"
Me: "Why?"
Him: Well short headspace could cause {something about jamming the lugs}"
Me: "It closes on factory ammo and cycles by hand just fine, wouldn't that indicate the headspace is not too short?"
Him: "Well, yes, but..."
Me: "and a case fired with the gas block shut measures within spec... wouldn't that indicate that headspace isn't too long?"
Him: "Well, yes... but...."
Me: "Then doesn't that indicate headspace is not the problem?"
Him: "Well, it should but...."
So not only is it now not "in and out same day", it's waiting another week just so they can get my bolt, that *I have to pay to ship*.
Do you have pics of that area of the barrel once you removed it for shipping ?
I had guy tell me this showed my gas block was not lined up correctly when I was having cycling issues . NO- the soot shows it was almost perfectly centered seeing how there is soot all the way around the port .
stagpanther
New member
Yeah--but it looks like a plume of gas cutting at the back of the gas block--looks like leaking to me.
Yeah but leaking is not the same as misaligned . That leak if it was even effecting anything would self seal over a short time as carbon builds up ??
Regardless it was not the issue , I just posted the pic as a reference to what to look for , adding the possible leak can be helpful to others looking for that issue . I had some clear gas leaking on my NM front sight base/gas block which stopped after a couple hundred rounds and never effected the operation of the firearm . I bet a lot of us have leakage on are builds but most barrels are black and it's hard to see that soot coming out from underneath the block
Regardless it was not the issue , I just posted the pic as a reference to what to look for , adding the possible leak can be helpful to others looking for that issue . I had some clear gas leaking on my NM front sight base/gas block which stopped after a couple hundred rounds and never effected the operation of the firearm . I bet a lot of us have leakage on are builds but most barrels are black and it's hard to see that soot coming out from underneath the block
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Metal God said:
I don't have pics, but I remember what it looked like. The soot around the vent was slightly off-center, toward the rear, left from the shooters perspective.
Regardless... as I told him, that obviously would not jam the action hammer tight.... even if one could argue it might under some unknown circumstance, t wouldn't when the gas block was *shut off*, which it was for a couple of rounds (which also jammed the action solid).
stagpanther
New member
The ARC uses a gredel BCG--and there IS a difference between type 1 and type 2 bolts breech face depth.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Stagpanther said:
Yes, that's true but you'd pretty much have to by "Type I" on purpose. If you buy a bolt or BCG for "6.5 Grendel" it would almost always be Type II... many of them don't even say specifically. The Type I practically doesn't exist, as far as normal open market products go.
You'd really have to buy the wrong one on purpose, or by pure dumb luck. Optics Planet, for instance, doesn't even appear to carry a "Type I"
Besides which, the brand I bought (Ballistics Advantage) doesn't even make a Type I.
stagpanther
New member
stuff happens, just sayin.
I don't doubt your account--but I have NEVER talked to anyone that sounded that clueless at McGowen--are you sure you talked to an actual technical engineer and not just a low -level knowledge salesperson?
I don't doubt your account--but I have NEVER talked to anyone that sounded that clueless at McGowen--are you sure you talked to an actual technical engineer and not just a low -level knowledge salesperson?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
He called me... all I can tell you is he acted like he was the one that was going to be doing the work and he was adamant that he had to have my bolt to verify everything. At one point, after I got pissy, he said he could just polish it and send it back if I wanted, but at this point I really don't even care anymore. I'll send them the damn bolt and be done with it... after they get through blaming my stuff for their garbage, I'll get the barrel back and fix it myself if I have to.
I’m not defending them but if I saw what appeared to be a misaligned gas block I’d wonder what else the “ Assembler “ did wrong and was trying to blame me for .
Again I’m not saying you did anything wrong Brian only thinking what a person that actually makes these things for a living might think about some random guy who put a bunch of random parts together and says my work is garbage .
I had a similar situation dealing with PSA and I could never get them to admit there chamber was out of spec . It was and still is , I chose to keep it for several reasons even though they offered to refund my money . You appear to headed down the same road .
To be honest I think you should ask for a refund . Unless it comes back flawless with a complete confession that they were all wrong , you likely are not going to be happy with this barrel . Anytime any little thing goes wrong you’re going to be “gosh darn barrel !!!! “ It’s time to move on if you can .
Again I’m not saying you did anything wrong Brian only thinking what a person that actually makes these things for a living might think about some random guy who put a bunch of random parts together and says my work is garbage .
I had a similar situation dealing with PSA and I could never get them to admit there chamber was out of spec . It was and still is , I chose to keep it for several reasons even though they offered to refund my money . You appear to headed down the same road .
To be honest I think you should ask for a refund . Unless it comes back flawless with a complete confession that they were all wrong , you likely are not going to be happy with this barrel . Anytime any little thing goes wrong you’re going to be “gosh darn barrel !!!! “ It’s time to move on if you can .
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stagpanther
New member
Exactly my thought. I think you should just flat out tell em you don't like being led on, lied to (your words) and you are very disappointed for the experience. I'm not saying you didn't get a barrel with issues--I've had plenty of them--but at a certain point there's a "broken trust" where inside you regret ever having done business with them and would likely never do so again. Sounds to me like you're there. OTOH--I can tell you that there are barrel makers (probably most of them) that likely HATE hearing my voice on the line when I call about something or a problem, and it often becomes a test of wills "you screwed it up...no you screwed it up" etc. but at the end of the day...or days...or weeks, a really reputable manufacturer will try to tough it out and make things right, at least that's always been my experience, at least with custom barrels (complete firearms sold by idiot retailers is a different story altogether). I have almost always ended up with a stellar shooting barrel eventually, that's my goal and I can quickly forget the blah blah blah when the bullets are hitting the target accurately.
Sometimes it's better to give them a "graceful out."
It's not huge mystery why it may or may not work--they either reamed it correctly within tolerance--or they didn't. I can't think of why they asked for your bolt unless they believe there's a headspace or lug lock-up issue with your bolt--it does happen.
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
That’s clearly what they believe.
He specifically mentioned both.
“We’ll it can’t be OUR fault… what else can I blame?!”
I just measured my bolt… 0.136 “headspace”. Lug length, 0.280, lug “height”/depth 0.120, bolt width 0.740
He specifically mentioned both.
“We’ll it can’t be OUR fault… what else can I blame?!”
I just measured my bolt… 0.136 “headspace”. Lug length, 0.280, lug “height”/depth 0.120, bolt width 0.740
stagpanther
New member
Generally the spent brass "tells the story" pretty well. If you had a stuck case after firing, generally speaking a properly functioning gas system will "try hard" to extract it and failing to do so you would likely see damage to the case rim (assuming the extractor was properly engaged to it).
Do you by any chance have another AR? Builders often assume that every part made is to spec and therefore all tolerances are met. You build enough of them you'll realize that isn't always the case (hence doing the headspace check, but we've discussed that already). Although it is highly unlikely that an Aero Precision receiver is out of tolerance, I might try a different stripped upper for the heck of it (you can get stoner ones for cheap). Once in a great while a BCG might not "ride" in the upper properly, or the bolt's lugs may not engage the extension's lugs properly.
I'm going to guess odds are you'll hear from McGowen either that they mounted up your bolt in their hardware that they know is within tolerances and that your barrel functioned just fine, or that there was an issue with the bolt working properly. You might ask them to send you a copy of their chamber reamer's specs, it's not uncommon for cartridges to have different "flavors" of reamers.
PS--Is the bolt's "wall" (the circular area that surrounds the case) enhanced/strengthened (grendels are somewhat notorious for potentially failing in that area)? I have had a couple of enhanced bolts not engage an extension well.
Grendel and grendel based cartridges are great performers, but in my experience the silly things are among the most finicky of AR cartridges, the cases are "touchy" to correct sizing and those sexy long bullets seated way out there can also create issues for a magazine and feed ramp to get them into the chamber undamaged. I've always thought the 6.8 spc case was an overall better design (and stronger) than the grendel's--I've built lots of stepchildren of both cartridges and the 6.8 family is generally far less troublesome.
Do you by any chance have another AR? Builders often assume that every part made is to spec and therefore all tolerances are met. You build enough of them you'll realize that isn't always the case (hence doing the headspace check, but we've discussed that already). Although it is highly unlikely that an Aero Precision receiver is out of tolerance, I might try a different stripped upper for the heck of it (you can get stoner ones for cheap). Once in a great while a BCG might not "ride" in the upper properly, or the bolt's lugs may not engage the extension's lugs properly.
I'm going to guess odds are you'll hear from McGowen either that they mounted up your bolt in their hardware that they know is within tolerances and that your barrel functioned just fine, or that there was an issue with the bolt working properly. You might ask them to send you a copy of their chamber reamer's specs, it's not uncommon for cartridges to have different "flavors" of reamers.
PS--Is the bolt's "wall" (the circular area that surrounds the case) enhanced/strengthened (grendels are somewhat notorious for potentially failing in that area)? I have had a couple of enhanced bolts not engage an extension well.
Grendel and grendel based cartridges are great performers, but in my experience the silly things are among the most finicky of AR cartridges, the cases are "touchy" to correct sizing and those sexy long bullets seated way out there can also create issues for a magazine and feed ramp to get them into the chamber undamaged.
I've always thought the 6.8 spc case was an overall better design (and stronger) than the grendel's--I've built lots of stepchildren of both cartridges and the 6.8 family is generally far less troublesome.
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stagpanther
New member
Long ago I had cases sticking in a chamber in a new build and I had covered all the usual suspects with no success when none other than our own unclenick suggested that I might have a piece of debris imprinted to the chamber wall causing the problem. That never occurred to me (I didn't have a borescope back then) and sure enough after doing a "spin-cleaning" of the chamber wall the problem vanished. Nowadays I usually do a cast of a barrel's chamber if I have any issues with it that I can't resolve easily.
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Yeah casting the chamber and a little up the bore is always a good idea if you can . I did not recommend it because getting the stuff for a one time use did not seem like a good idea . However in hindsight it's probably exactly what he should have done . I'm not sure why but I can NEVER remember what this chamber casting material is called . Done/used right it's good stuff .