First rifle ... what's the best all around caliber
- Thread starter PetreTG
- Start date
30-30
I'll go with the ole reliable 30-30. More deer have been killed with this caliber than any other. Not alot of choices in rifles but I love my Marlin 336. It does just about everything I need it to do. Its very light, compact, easy to shoot and low recoil. Also ammo is easy to find and inexpensive.
Mak
I'll go with the ole reliable 30-30. More deer have been killed with this caliber than any other. Not alot of choices in rifles but I love my Marlin 336. It does just about everything I need it to do. Its very light, compact, easy to shoot and low recoil. Also ammo is easy to find and inexpensive.
Mak
deadasslast2004
New member
cooper or Kimber
1 rifle that will never let you down and for $800-$1000 always get your money back on either of these.
I vote the 270 caliber does everything with a properly placed shot and small enough to start out a 13-14 year old son without sending them into kicker shock!
1 rifle that will never let you down and for $800-$1000 always get your money back on either of these.
I vote the 270 caliber does everything with a properly placed shot and small enough to start out a 13-14 year old son without sending them into kicker shock!
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
For a first-rifle novice, I guess I'd recommend not one rifle but two.
First and more important of the two, a .22 bolt-action to learn the techniques of becoming proficient at low cost. For us Old Pharts, the beginning was around age 8 or 9 or thereabouts, and we had some years of experience before graduating to centerfire. I was sixteen when I was given my first .30-'06.
I started handloading that same year, and the '06 has been my primary "go to" cartridge ever since. Lots of other funtoys through the years, but that old dinosaur has always been "Old Reliable" for me.
Brand? Hardly matters. Today's machine tools make it difficult to produce an inaccurate rifle. Find whatever critter fits your body, and has a finish and appearance that is pleasing to you.
A sorta-warning: The '06 does well with A 24" or slightly longer barrel. The .308 is near the '06 performance with the typical bullets used for deer, but does okay for performance with barrels of 20" to 22". The .308 would probably do quite well for you when deer hunting in Wisconsin. (I'm not gonna go into all the "why" at this stage. Bear with me.
)
And don't be in a hurry.
Art
First and more important of the two, a .22 bolt-action to learn the techniques of becoming proficient at low cost. For us Old Pharts, the beginning was around age 8 or 9 or thereabouts, and we had some years of experience before graduating to centerfire. I was sixteen when I was given my first .30-'06.
I started handloading that same year, and the '06 has been my primary "go to" cartridge ever since. Lots of other funtoys through the years, but that old dinosaur has always been "Old Reliable" for me.
Brand? Hardly matters. Today's machine tools make it difficult to produce an inaccurate rifle. Find whatever critter fits your body, and has a finish and appearance that is pleasing to you.
A sorta-warning: The '06 does well with A 24" or slightly longer barrel. The .308 is near the '06 performance with the typical bullets used for deer, but does okay for performance with barrels of 20" to 22". The .308 would probably do quite well for you when deer hunting in Wisconsin. (I'm not gonna go into all the "why" at this stage. Bear with me.
)And don't be in a hurry.
Art
Old Time Hunter
New member
.30-30 is all you need. It will do everything with less fuss, no recoil, and with less expense.
Again ... Thank you for all the advice guys!
Great site!
I think I will stick with a .30-06 .... sounds like something I won't grow out of or be disappointed in.
I really don't think I'll have a hard time with recoil , I'm a pretty tough guy at 6' 230lbs of SOLID MUSCLE ... Ruff Rufff!!
No but seriously ... I want one gun I will be happy with for the long haul. I'll learn to use it properly no problem I think.
I was looking at some Saur's and Sako's that both looked nice to me ... any opinions on these ?
Sauer Model 200 .30-06 Rifle and Sako Model 75 Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series in .30-06 .... thoughts ???
Great site!
I think I will stick with a .30-06 .... sounds like something I won't grow out of or be disappointed in.
I really don't think I'll have a hard time with recoil , I'm a pretty tough guy at 6' 230lbs of SOLID MUSCLE ... Ruff Rufff!!
No but seriously ... I want one gun I will be happy with for the long haul. I'll learn to use it properly no problem I think.
I was looking at some Saur's and Sako's that both looked nice to me ... any opinions on these ?
Sauer Model 200 .30-06 Rifle and Sako Model 75 Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series in .30-06 .... thoughts ???
wakerider017
New member
Nice choice with the .30-06. You will not be disappointed.
I am the same height as you, but about 60 lbs lighter. Recoil should not be a big problem..
Although I have no personal experience with Sako rifles I have heard they are very nice!
I am not sure what the Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series is... (I think the Hunter model is pretty popular) The 75's are the older models I believe.
There is supposed to be little difference between the Sako 75's and the newer 85's.
Make sure you give the Reminton 700's a look! I love my CDL. They are a beautiful rifle and quite a bit cheaper than the Sako's. Gives you more money to spend on glass.
I am the same height as you, but about 60 lbs lighter. Recoil should not be a big problem..
Although I have no personal experience with Sako rifles I have heard they are very nice!
I am not sure what the Deluxe King Ranch Heritage Series is... (I think the Hunter model is pretty popular) The 75's are the older models I believe.
There is supposed to be little difference between the Sako 75's and the newer 85's.
Make sure you give the Reminton 700's a look! I love my CDL. They are a beautiful rifle and quite a bit cheaper than the Sako's. Gives you more money to spend on glass.
SamHouston
New member
Retired the Old 30-06 for a Ruger 25-06. I'tll do just about everyting I need to do for small to medium game and it's fun to shoot.
fisherman66
New member
A person's tolerance level to recoil is unrelated to their stature or weight.
wakerider017
New member
The bigger the person the less felt recoil. (mass) Just like the heavier the gun the less felt recoil.
Also has to do with stance, recoil pads and other things...
But a 12yr old kid is going to say a 30/06 kicks like a mule, while a 40yr old says it is no big deal.
It is all physics, transfer of equal and opposite energy... I don't think a guy that is 230lbs will have any problems with this gun.
Also has to do with stance, recoil pads and other things...
But a 12yr old kid is going to say a 30/06 kicks like a mule, while a 40yr old says it is no big deal.
It is all physics, transfer of equal and opposite energy... I don't think a guy that is 230lbs will have any problems with this gun.
billindenver
New member
Depends on the gun as well. Although it was heavier my mossberg 4x4 sure seemed to beat me up more than the tikka T3. Both have limbsaver pads on them. Maybe the synthetic stock of the Tikka gives more than the laminated stock of the mossberg, but I can shoot the tikka all day long in 30-06 without discomfort.
fisherman66
New member
What does my weight have to do with how hard my rifles kick? Actually a heavier person will "rock" back with the recoil less, so the inverse is more likely to be true. You have the rifle weight issue correct, since the added weight slows the recoil over a longer period of time.
billindenver
New member
Perhaps it is just my twisted way of thinking, but I'll bet my 105 lb girl would have a harsher felt recoil than I would. Less mass for the recoil to move would mean the recoil pushes further and likely hurts more. I think that is what the other poster was getting at.
Bill
Bill
fisherman66
New member
Bill, is it more comfortable to shoot hunched over a bench, where you soak up the recoil; or standing where you roll with the punch?
The Sauer 200 is a good choice. I have a Sauer 202 which is an updated version of the 200. If you can find either a 200 or 202 within your budget go for it. Check out the prices on new 202's in the Blue Book!
The 202 has the best trigger you will ever find in an out of the box rifle. An ergonomic and quiet and positive safety system. Beautiful bluing, nice wood and a smoothe bolt.
The rifle also allows changing calibers within a range of calibers based on the 30-06 and can use 308 with the proper barrel and a different mag.
It comes with a 3 round mag but 5 rounders are available but hard to find.
The 200 is compatible with barrels from the 202.
Downsides are a somewhat fragile forend, and pricey extra barrels you need to get directly from Sig Sauer. It also requires special mounts for the scope and does not come with iron sights but is tapped for irons.
If you can find a used 200/202 with the Burris mounts already installed
And the gun is accurate.
And is is made byJ P Sauer & Sohn. They don't make junk
The 202 has the best trigger you will ever find in an out of the box rifle. An ergonomic and quiet and positive safety system. Beautiful bluing, nice wood and a smoothe bolt.
The rifle also allows changing calibers within a range of calibers based on the 30-06 and can use 308 with the proper barrel and a different mag.
It comes with a 3 round mag but 5 rounders are available but hard to find.
The 200 is compatible with barrels from the 202.
Downsides are a somewhat fragile forend, and pricey extra barrels you need to get directly from Sig Sauer. It also requires special mounts for the scope and does not come with iron sights but is tapped for irons.
If you can find a used 200/202 with the Burris mounts already installed
And the gun is accurate.
And is is made byJ P Sauer & Sohn. They don't make junk
wakerider017
New member
Fisherman, If you agree a heavier rifle will have less felt recoil, then you must also agree a heavier person will have less felt recoil.
Think about it. When the rifle is pressed tight against your shoulder, you are your rifle become one object.
Just think what the recoil would feel like if you held it 2 inches of your shoulder.
There is no point in arguing this, it is a fact. You can search online if you do no believe me. Look for a physics website.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The propellants energy forward (bullet, extra powder, etc), is transfered equally backward.
When shooting a 30-06 the forward moving object is a 150grn bullet, with the rifle shouldered I have about a 180lb object moving backward.
Ex.
Hit a golfball with a baseball bat and it is going to go flying! Hit a bowling ball with the same force as before and it is not going to move much at all.
fisherman66
New member
I have no desire to argue anything on a message board. I really view it as a conversation on perspectives.
How can you debate that anything in perceived recoil is fact? The word "perceived" indicates it's subjective.
If the 250lb guy is soaking up the recoil where the 150lb guy is rocking with the recoil the impulse (time over which energy is distributed) is going to be different.
Perhaps this conversation would be better served on a separate topic thread that is dedicated to recoil. If you are interested I will see ya there as time allows.
22-rimfire
New member
Choice of a centerfire rifle depends on what you want to hunt with it. If you want a combination varmint and whitetail gun, I'd look at a 243. If you want something just a tad more potent as whitetails will be the primary game animal hunting, then I'd look at rifles made in 270, 308 or 30-06. If you are located in the Western US where long shots will be the more common shot expected, I'd look at a 7mm or 300 Win Mag. Both hurt a bit more than the previous ones mentioned when you shoot it.
If Elk and whitetail is your game, then I'd look at the 7mm or 300 win mag as top choices.
My first hunting rifle was a 243 which I used for both varmints and whitetails. I would have used it for black bear if I had hunted them at that time, but it is a bit light for them and it was all I had. The 243 is a great caliber with modest recoil which sufficient punch for many game animals under 300 lbs. You can really smoke varmints with the 243 out to 500 yds!
I later purchased a Remington Model 700 BDL in 270 win. It was too big for varmints unless you hand load, but it is a great whitetail caliber. The Remington is the one I'd recommend in whatever caliber you choose. It is a great first rifle.
I also support buying a 22 as a first rifle and getting the centerfire second or at the same time.
If Elk and whitetail is your game, then I'd look at the 7mm or 300 win mag as top choices.
My first hunting rifle was a 243 which I used for both varmints and whitetails. I would have used it for black bear if I had hunted them at that time, but it is a bit light for them and it was all I had. The 243 is a great caliber with modest recoil which sufficient punch for many game animals under 300 lbs. You can really smoke varmints with the 243 out to 500 yds!
I later purchased a Remington Model 700 BDL in 270 win. It was too big for varmints unless you hand load, but it is a great whitetail caliber. The Remington is the one I'd recommend in whatever caliber you choose. It is a great first rifle.
I also support buying a 22 as a first rifle and getting the centerfire second or at the same time.
wakerider017
New member
Fisherman,
Perceived recoil is really besides the point. Some people will say a shot hurts, while others say they don't mind.
There is no way to measure this. (There is no pain, or comfort scale)
But the amount of recoil is a definite number. So, this is how we measure.
You are absolutely right about about time over which energy is distributed!
That is why we measure in Joules.
Perceived recoil is really besides the point. Some people will say a shot hurts, while others say they don't mind.
There is no way to measure this. (There is no pain, or comfort scale)
But the amount of recoil is a definite number. So, this is how we measure.
You are absolutely right about about time over which energy is distributed!
That is why we measure in Joules.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Start a new thread, because it's a good topic, but I think fisherman is mostly right (seems counterintuitive, but I'll explain my physics reasoning in the new thread).