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Fast & Furious scandal coverup truth exposed by court order
- Thread starter Armybrat
- Start date
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
You seem to be suggesting that a bipartisan investigation could be had in that situation. I think that expecting Elijah Cummings to hold Eric Holder accountable is likely to result in disappointment, whatever your estimation of Issa might be.
You seem to be suggesting that a bipartisan investigation could be had in that situation.
Sorry if I gave that impression.
This Fast And Furious debacle cried out for the appointment of a special prosecutor. The running of guns into Mexico was a blatant violation of federal law and contrary to everything this country stands for. For sure an special prosecutor would have gone after Newell and his bunch.
There are still many unanswered questions. Was a third gun, an SKS, found at the Brian Terry murder scene? The FBI says no but i'm not so sure.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-and-furious-identified-at-border-agents.html
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JoeSixpack
New member
I have not heard anything about it on the news, and if we do I think it will be only passing.. Trump keeps them busy most days, Probably a lot of wrong doing not getting reported cause they're so focused on him.
This whole Russia thing I almost dont care at this point.
This whole Russia thing I almost dont care at this point.
Three things really bug me about the outcome of the US House investigation of Fast And Furious:
1. Some career BATFE agents got away with aiding and abetting murder:
2. Some high ranking political appointees deliberately hindered the inquiry and most likely lied.
3. No reform of the BATFE took place. This one bugs me the most.
Since 1979 i have had an abiding distain of the BATFE (then the ATF). A scurrilous ATF SAC got incensed because i refused to lie to a federal judge. His office, acting on the word of a felon snitch who claimed the man had an unregistered machine gun, raided the home of a well known doctor and confiscated 200 guns and huge quantities of ammunition.
There was no unregistered machine gun and the federal judge ordered the guns and ammunition returned. The SAC claimed his office had turned over several hundred thousand rounds of ammunition to my Army EOD unit for destruction. That was a bald faced lie.
One nice morning the SAC came into my office with an Army CID agent i had known for many years. The SAC ordered the agent to "read him his rights". The response: "If you want the M/Sgt. read his rights then do it yourself".
There was an ATF internal investigation. The internal investigator was a pretty decent guy. i initially broke bad, suggesting the SAC and his underlings had stolen the ammunition. His response: "Some guns are unaccounted for too". Later found out the judge held ATF folks in contempt of court and jailed same.
1. Some career BATFE agents got away with aiding and abetting murder:
2. Some high ranking political appointees deliberately hindered the inquiry and most likely lied.
3. No reform of the BATFE took place. This one bugs me the most.
Since 1979 i have had an abiding distain of the BATFE (then the ATF). A scurrilous ATF SAC got incensed because i refused to lie to a federal judge. His office, acting on the word of a felon snitch who claimed the man had an unregistered machine gun, raided the home of a well known doctor and confiscated 200 guns and huge quantities of ammunition.
There was no unregistered machine gun and the federal judge ordered the guns and ammunition returned. The SAC claimed his office had turned over several hundred thousand rounds of ammunition to my Army EOD unit for destruction. That was a bald faced lie.
One nice morning the SAC came into my office with an Army CID agent i had known for many years. The SAC ordered the agent to "read him his rights". The response: "If you want the M/Sgt. read his rights then do it yourself".
There was an ATF internal investigation. The internal investigator was a pretty decent guy. i initially broke bad, suggesting the SAC and his underlings had stolen the ammunition. His response: "Some guns are unaccounted for too". Later found out the judge held ATF folks in contempt of court and jailed same.
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Regarding Fast and Furious, Deep State abuse can only happen with complicit media -- in particular, The Associated Press.
Most of the 1,000 daily newspapers get their news from the AP. Most of the time, editors do not edit AP copy. They should. Too often it has a distinct point of view and its opinions are built into adjectives and verbs selected and in the clauses they choose to insert.
Most of the articles start with a paragraph used to punch up the story. Look there for what AP wants to push.
They will also pollinate their views across stories -- you will find Flynn brought up in unrelated stories.
With Fast and Furious, AP declined to cover the 300 page report just released because they call it “Old News” -- that’s the tried and true political gambit. Stall long enough that AP considers it Old News.
You have to be your own expert -- discarding media right and left when they blow smoke. They do it all the time.
Most of the 1,000 daily newspapers get their news from the AP. Most of the time, editors do not edit AP copy. They should. Too often it has a distinct point of view and its opinions are built into adjectives and verbs selected and in the clauses they choose to insert.
Most of the articles start with a paragraph used to punch up the story. Look there for what AP wants to push.
They will also pollinate their views across stories -- you will find Flynn brought up in unrelated stories.
With Fast and Furious, AP declined to cover the 300 page report just released because they call it “Old News” -- that’s the tried and true political gambit. Stall long enough that AP considers it Old News.
You have to be your own expert -- discarding media right and left when they blow smoke. They do it all the time.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I think it is instructive that after the results from Wide Receiver, they decided to just do away with the bothersome tracking of weapons that had been unsuccessful in Wide Receiver and go bigger with the same guy in charge - and reporting to Joe Biden's lead counsel on the 1994 AWB no less.
For any of the issues thallub raised to be addressed, you have to acknowledge some really inconvenient facts that point fairly high up. Poor Lanny Breuer was forced into a private practice partnership with a 7-figure income in an attempt to throw someone under the bus. That's the head of the Criminal Division of the DOJ. Not a small scalp, though to us plebes I'm sure the "punishment" seems inadequate. But the point remains that you can't pull at that thread and then stop once you've hit on the points thallub raised - the inquiry would inevitably go higher and so everyone got a pass.
For any of the issues thallub raised to be addressed, you have to acknowledge some really inconvenient facts that point fairly high up. Poor Lanny Breuer was forced into a private practice partnership with a 7-figure income in an attempt to throw someone under the bus. That's the head of the Criminal Division of the DOJ. Not a small scalp, though to us plebes I'm sure the "punishment" seems inadequate. But the point remains that you can't pull at that thread and then stop once you've hit on the points thallub raised - the inquiry would inevitably go higher and so everyone got a pass.
the inquiry would inevitably go higher and so everyone got a pass.
That's the thing. F&F was an Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force operation. Those involve cross-agency cooperation and there's a potentially dangerous amount of leeway given. They're expensive, judges are tasked with rubber-stamping warrants, and there's great potential for things to go wrong. The DOJ only has a couple of these running at a time. The Attorney General would have received weekly briefings on F&F.
Furthermore, there's the troubling fact that President Obama commented on the operation on Mexican television four months before Holder said he knew about it. Even if we accept the ignorance defense at face value (which would mean Holder was paying no attention to what was going on in his department), it doesn't line up with their refusal to turn over subpoenaed emails.
Nor does it explain why the President invoked executive privilege at the last minute, or why it was used with such a broad brush. I doubt the President was involved, but everything points to a really botched attempt at a cover-up to save face.
The frustrating thing with these political scandals (and it applies to both sides) is that while there is clear implication that high officials knowingly and willingly broke multiple laws, they are too often able to stall, stonewall, obfuscate, and drag out investigations until they are no longer in office, at which time, virtually all impetus to prosecute them ceases to exist.
It seems to be a game to them, and the usual loser is the US public.
It seems to be a game to them, and the usual loser is the US public.
the inquiry would inevitably go higher and so everyone got a pass.
That sums up the situation really well.
Newell got bumped up front. The political appointees at Justice got a pass. Everyone is happy. Too bad all those innocent folks were murdered with Fast and Furious guns.
For those who are interested in the shenanigans at the BATFE:
http://cleanupatf.org/forums/index.php?/topic/551-operation-f-f/
I ran across a website mentioning a new 293 page report to congress just released, copied it and sent to my anti US Senator requesting a copy of the report. Will see howong it takes to get a form letter saying No thank you..
Why dont a couple dozen of you do the same, to your senator, esp if anti.
Why dont a couple dozen of you do the same, to your senator, esp if anti.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
^^^ Link to the article mentioning this new report?
ShootistPRS
New member
Aguila Blanca
Staff
That report is dated July 31, 2012. It's five YEARS old, and it's 211 pages, not 293 pages. lanenc mentioned a "new" 293 page report, "just released." I'd like to get a link to the new report.ShootisdtPRS said:You can find a congressional press release HERE.
Perhaps langenc is referring to this Final Report Part III released June 7, 2017 titled "Fast and Furious: Obstruction of Congress by the Department of Justice." It is 263 pages long. Haven't read it, just found it.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
That must be it. Thanks.
And that spurred me on to look up Part 2 -- I already had part 1. The complete set should make for some interesting reading.
And that spurred me on to look up Part 2 -- I already had part 1. The complete set should make for some interesting reading.
Folks, I've deleted some posts for blatant politics. Bear in mind, we do have some particular rules for this subforum. One of the most important is, "straight political discussions or partisan politics will be off topic."
If a post of yours was deleted, you're welcome to repost the material without the straight politics.
If a post of yours was deleted, you're welcome to repost the material without the straight politics.