Failure to Eject with SA Range Officer

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TunnelRat

New member
Hi all,
I've had a Springfield Armory Range Officer in 45 ACP for just over two years. I bought it used and I don't shoot it that much. The pistol has been flawless until recently. At around the 1200 rd mark I started getting failures to eject. The case would extract, get held back by the extractor, and yet not get kicked out by the ejector. This has happened with S&B, Federal, and Fiocchi ammunition now (all 230 gr, brass cased, ball ammunition). The ejector looks fine to me, and I've cleaned out the extractor channel (internal extractor) and inspected the extractor. Nothing looks wrong to me visually, but I'm more of a novice when it comes to 1911s.

I like to try to fix things myself to gain some knowledge. Does anyone have some tips on what I can look at?

Thanks,
TR
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S

Sevens

New member
It's been my experience that this is going to be a problem associated with the tuning of the extractor or the spring of the extractor itself going out of tune and needing to be replaced. I've twice run in to this... both on Springfield 1911 pistols, one in .45 and one in 9mm.

With the 9mm, a little tuning did the trick and it didn't become a problem again, but I did end up selling the pistol. I know the buyer very well and he hasn't had an issue. With the .45, tuning always fixed the problem -- until it returned. Buying a new extractor and tuning it ended the problem.

It's funny, with 1911's and extractor design and the legions of "purists" who will go miles-deep in arguments of what makes a real 1911 and what is a departure that would sicken John M. Browning... but it's been my experience that the original extractor design is easier to tune AND replace but an external extractor seems to give less potential trouble.

For tuning a .45cal traditional 1911 extractor, honestly just do a search for instructions and watch a video of you enjoy a demonstration in that manner. I certainly can't explain it as well as other can. I do know what to look for, and I've always tuned mine right in the slide itself, no tools.
 
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BillM

New member
What does your recoil spring look like? You bought it used--does it happen to
have a shok buff in it?

As long as the ejector isn't broken it's probably fine. Could be too little tension on the
extractor--as someone else said, youtube.

Does it still have that goofy Springfield lock in the mainspring housing? Might take a look there---John Browning didn't design that so it is probably prone to breakage.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Actually it did have one of those Wilson Combat Shok Buffs in it, as well as a full length Wilson Combat guide rod. I put the original GI guide rod and recoil spring back in and took out the Shok Buff (they were in labeled bags). I don't know how many rounds the original spring has on it. Could that be the issue?

As for the ILS, while I don't care for it and would prefer not to have it and while I know the purists are annoyed by it and think John Moses Browning, hallowed be his name, rolls over in his grave over it, it hasn't given me issues before and I don't think it's the issue here. The pistol isn't locking up. Even when this happens I can move the slide freely and the hammer has cocked for the next shot.

Tuning could be another factor that I can look at. Thanks for the info so far!

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HiBC

New member
I'd leave your extractor alone. Extractor is a problem if the round has trouble feeding up the breech under the extractor or if the extractor is dropping the brass before it ejects.It seems your extractor is holding it to the breech face just fine.And the cartridge is feeding.

Your pistol probably came with the standard 1911 length ejector .Those rubber doohickeys cost you a little slide stroke.

Odds are good you solved it removing the doohickey.

Full length rods,I can take or leave. I generally get rid of them.


Spring? They don't cost much and they change easy. I'm less concerned about it being wore out than I am about the previous owner upping the spring rate to go with his shock buf and guide rod. (Plus P equipt?)

I'd go for the standard .45 spring. I forget,14 lb? 16 lb? 16,I think.My Randall was not always catching the slide last round,so I went 1 lb or two lighter. Fixed it.

There is a joke "A farmer gets a new quarter million dollar tractor and he HAS to weld a chunk of angle iron to it,someplace. For a cup holder,maybe."
A 1911 is sort of the same.

I'm a little concerned about what might be marks indicating the slide is dragging on the barrel.

Too complex to cover here/now,and I cant see the detail well enough.

It would be about "timing" See Kuhnhusen or maybe the reference material at the Schuemann barrel website.

At full linkdown there should be some barrel/slide clearance.Its not good if the slide lugs and the barrel lugs clash during slide travel.
 
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T

TunnelRat

New member
So the Shok Buff was removed when I first got it, at the beginning of the 1400 rds I have through it now. These failures to eject only started happening about 200 rds ago, and I didn't change anything about the pistol at that time. The only things I've changed about the pistol are some VZ grips and Wilson Combat magazines. I believe the recoil spring I have in there now was in the bag labeled stock, and hasn't been an issue until now. Springs are a cheap fix so I could certainly swap that out, but if the spring is worn wouldn't that increase the rearward slide velocity? I'd think that wouldn't hurt ejection.

I can take more pictures as well if people think that will help.

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HiBC

New member
OK.From what you have said having the shock buf out,I'm a little puzzled about the problem.

I'll assume you are good about cleaning/lubing.Does the slide stop work reliably last round? That's a reasonably good indication you are not short stroking.

Looks like that ammo,for that case,burns a little dirty.


We don't know what tinkering was done with this gun.I don't really suggest making changes to anything without some idea of what is wrong.

Maybe,just maybe,look close at that rubbing I see on top of the barrel.Field strip it. Look real careful at the locking lug edges ,both slide and barrel.Look for battering,mushrooming,upset metal.

Then look real close at the link.Look for a crack,or stretching,or egg shaped holes.
Don't change anything,just inspect.

My wild hair idea,if the link has "stretched" for any reason,your barrel is not being linked down as far. Its possible,then,that there is unwanted friction between the slide and barrel.Hand cycling does not tell you everything that happens during the dynamics of firing.That friction could slow the slide.Look for signs of friction on the guide rod,too.Everything might be fine.I does not hurt to look.No,we don't want to change the link "just because"


Remember,I'm just talking about LOOKING. Not changing anything.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Slide stop works fine. I'll take a look at the locking surfaces tomorrow. I usually wipe down the slide and the interior of the frame every time I shoot it (I do the bore every 500 rds) and put drops of oil in the locking recesses and spread it using my fingers over the length of the barrel and locking lugs (Slip 2000). One thing to note is when it does fail to eject it seems like the extracted case is riding high enough to go over the ejector. Not sure how that happens. I will say last time I shot it I did pay attention to the ejection pattern and it was pretty scattered from 3 to 6 o'clock.

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HiBC

New member
The part about the case riding high could indicate the extractor. There are reasonably good you tube vids for checking extractor tension.

Dropping a loose round in the chamber then dropping the slide on it is not good for extractors(just something good to know)


You got new magazines.Magazine spring tension IS part of the dance.The upcoming new round pushes up on the expended brass IF its still on the breech face....but the ejector should have already knocked it clear.

When they are right the ejection is pretty consistent.


The extractor hook has to keep the brass on the breech face.

The slide has to travel back full stroke for the ejector to work.


The ejector has to be of the correct length to knock it out. A stock ejector should work fine.No,I'm not saying "Get an extended ejector" The ejector is something the tinker can file on,trying to "tune" it.I wonder if some "tuning" was done to yours.(Did he)File off too much?
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
That's a factory round in the photo? The case looks awfully dirty -- like it might be a low-power round that doesn't have enough moxie to fully obturate the case and seal it to the chamber wall.

Try a lighter recoil spring.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
That's a factory round in the photo? The case looks awfully dirty -- like it might be a low-power round that doesn't have enough moxie to fully obturate the case and seal it to the chamber wall.

Try a lighter recoil spring.
Click to expand...

It has done this with 3 different manufacturers, like I said in the beginning, including with manufacturers that it never had a problem with in the past. These aren't low power loads.


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Tactical Jackalope

New member
Oh man. Sorry to hear.

I've been there with my old Colt Series 70.

It turned out to be the extractor on mine as well.

Pick one up on Brownells and send it out to someone you trust to tune it.

That's what I had to do. :/


I see the Wilson Combat 47D magazines, so we know it's not that. ;)
 
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TunnelRat

New member
So I took some pictures of the locking surfaces, barrel, barrel link, extractor with cartridge in place, and ejector. I don't personally see anything wrong with the locking surfaces or linkage. The barrel does have scuff marks on the hood, but I don't know if the extent is unusual. I'll still have to check out a YouTube video for extractor tension.:

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polyphemus

New member
Tunnel,the youtube videos on the subject of extractor adjustment are full of misinformation,many show it to be easily bent,it is not or it is defective,then there is the round hold test which tells you nothing other that it does or it doesn't.
The kind of stoppage you describe is most likely caused by a weak xtractor,like I prev wrote it should hold a 1.75lb weigh+/-,I use a very simple method to check and I've explained it here quite a few times,the last time some pharmacist got all bent over backwards because of some apothecary issue with weights so please do a search and let me know if you need assistance,in any case bending it is no easy matter but is done outside the pistol on a vise of some sort,if you can take it out with little of no effort,it's weak.
 
H

HiBC

New member
You can spend a lot of money on 1911 tools. I have access to a Bridgeport.I made my own copy of this tool.

This sure is the tool for the job of tensioning extractors. After using mine,my 1911;s are reason enough to own one.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...1911-extractor-tensioning-tool-prod16110.aspx


On the timing/linkdown lugs thing. From what I can see,yours is not damaged.

Nothing to freak out about. I think maybe the 1911 that is not quite tuned right is more common than the ones that are tuned right.The design is robust enough it runs anyway.


I do think the timing on yours could be better. I'll get you a link that explains it. The Kunhausen book explains it. FWIW,I don't end up with as much clearance slide to barrel as spec'd. But I get "some".Its a technical job...not recommended for everyone.

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/webfile_1911_Timing.pdf

I might see a bit more clearance breech to case head than I like..but that gets into fitting the firing pin stop to the extractor.You need some clearance to tilt up under the extractor in feeding...my eyeball is not calibrated !


Your ejector appears undamaged/unmodified. I do not think it has been goobered. I'm not going to tell you to goober it.The point of contact on the brass is as high as possible with that corner the way it is.That means the brass,held by the hook,tries to come out as low and flat as possible.There is a relationship between the extractor hook and the ejector that determines the trajectory of the brass. Your trajectory should be low,with that ejector.


Perhaps you have heard of a "lowered ejection port" The idea is to give the brass a path out of the slide.I,m not telling you to modify anything. If someone wants a little higher brass trajectory,it gets done sometimes to file a bit of a chamfer on the ejector to lower the contact point just a bit.With the ejector contact a touch lower relative to the hook,the brass gets tossed up a bit more.But if you don't know what you are doing,you can screw it up.

I do not suggest you monkey up your pistol.I'm telling you this for a conversation with a pistolsmith.
 
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Iron bottom

New member
Is your extractor clocking? I haven't seen a properly fitted firing pin stop on a new 1911 in a long time. Fit a new one that allows no movement of the extractor.

I would try a Wilson Combat extractor. They are prepped very well. Just put it in the gun and shoot some before any tensioning. Be very careful to not over tension.

A Colt Competition I recently bought Has a differently shaped ejector. And a lowered ejection port.
 
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Don P

New member
I was having the same problem with my SA Range Officer. Extractor did not have enough tension on it and caused stove pipes, failure to extract/eject. The extractor would not hold a round to the breach face. Put a round in the slide and jiggle it and the round would fall out
 
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