Exploding Bullets - whatever happened to these...

[NavyVet1959]

mercury will dissolve lead, i know because i have bought several Ruger Blackhawks from ignorant people who thought their gun was "shot out", i have used mercury to clean heavily leaded revolver barrels, so it would be very impractical unless used within hours of inserting a drop of mercury.

personally i do not understand the paranoia over mercury, when handled safely and properly it is no more dangerous than water !! just my OPINION

on exploding bullets, i knew a fellow once several years ago (he moved to MN.) who drilled a hole in a large caliber bullet that would hold a .25 caliber rim fire "stud shooter" blank, the results were pretty devastating.

I was recently drilling out a .22LR rifle barrel for testing a .25 nail gun blank behind a 55gr 0.225" cast bullet and that same thing occurred to me. The .25 nail gun blank is the same diameter as a .22 mag. Seems that you could use a .22 or .25 nail gun blank in a 10mm or .45ACP that had been drilled out with the same drill bit and it might make for an interesting wound channel in ballistic gel. I'm thinking it would have decreased penetration, but it would be interesting to see what it would do. I don't do ballistic gel testing nor do I have a high speed camera to record it, so I'll have to pass on it.

 

[4V50 Gary]

There is no reason for a nose mounted primer to ignite when the firearm is discharged. A firing pin punches the primer which causes the ignition compound to strike the anvil with force sufficient for ignition. To "explode" the nose would have to strike a hard surface.

Back in the 1850s the British invented the Jacobs bullet with a percussion cap or fulminate of mercury installed in its nose. Fulminate of mercury is much more sensitive. The nose also contained a small charge of powder. The bullet was designed to blow up artillery casinos (or limbers) so as to render an artillery piece ineffective. Naturally, since it was used in muzzle loaders, the ramrod's tip had to be bored out so as not to contact the percussion cap.

 

[carguychris]

Sadly, exploding bullets have proven just as ineffective against zombie threads as other types of small arms.

Perhaps we need to step up to light artillery.

 

[TXAZ]

There is one very effective explosive round, the Mark 211 Raufoss. It often doesn't explode hitting a soft target, but will punch through better than an API round through walls, setting off a charge and fragments when it hits a hard target.

They are similar ballistically to the M33 Ball round but have different (green / white) paint markings:

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Much more effective than an API as there's also a Tungstun penetrator inside the round. Here's a video:

.50 Mark 211 Explosive Round (Raufoss)

I believe they are available in .308.

 

[44 AMP]

The M8c is a semi automatic, fed from a 10rnd magazine, and fires a special .50 caliber round that is different from the .50BMG round. I was in one of the last classes of Small Arms Repairman trained to work on them at the USAOC&S, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD.

They are neat. Just the barrel & action (no stock or provision for one) clamped with a sight on the barrel of the 106mm recoilless rifle.

In the days before laser sighting, the idea was excellent. The round fired by the spotting rifle had the same ballistics as the 106mm round. The idea was, as stated, you fired single shots from the spotting rifle until you were on target, then fired the "main gun" 106mm.

You did this, because you only got to fire the 106mm ONCE. Then you boogied, at speed. because everyone within a mile or more just had your exact position pin pointed by the RR backblast. And, you weren't under any kind of armor. When it comes to direct fire recoilless rifles, he who shoots and runs away lives to shoot another day. (Usually, and "runs away" means moving to an alternate firing position, rapidly).

 

[NavyVet1959]

The M8c is a semi automatic, fed from a 10rnd magazine, and fires a special .50 caliber round that is different from the .50BMG round. I was in one of the last classes of Small Arms Repairman trained to work on them at the USAOC&S, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD.

They are neat. Just the barrel & action (no stock or provision for one) clamped with a sight on the barrel of the 106mm recoilless rifle.

In the days before laser sighting, the idea was excellent. The round fired by the spotting rifle had the same ballistics as the 106mm round. The idea was, as stated, you fired single shots from the spotting rifle until you were on target, then fired the "main gun" 106mm.

You did this, because you only got to fire the 106mm ONCE. Then you boogied, at speed. because everyone within a mile or more just had your exact position pin pointed by the RR backblast. And, you weren't under any kind of armor. When it comes to direct fire recoilless rifles, he who shoots and runs away lives to shoot another day. (Usually, and "runs away" means moving to an alternate firing position, rapidly).

I've seen some of the powder that they use in those rounds for sale in bulk. I might even have an 7 or 8 lb jug of them around here *somewhere*. IMR7383, perhaps?

 

[Rob228]

I want to say the newest iteration of the SMAW has ditched the spotting rifle, but I can't remember if that is 100% correct or not. One of the more interesting looking cartridges though.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo05oct.htm

 

[ThomasT]

I have made exploding bullets. I used a winchester 158gr hollow point and drilled it out with a .177 drill. Now add 3F black powder that you grind even finer and add a small pistol primer to the nose. Now you can use a round nose seating plug to round the end of the bullet to hold the primer. They will explode on a 4x4" post and really blow the backside out. I only made a few and have no plans to make others. That was 30+ years ago after I got into reloading. I think the better hollow points are the correct answer.

But if you want to have some fun and own an air pistol like a crosman 1377 or the 22 caliber version try this. Make a wire that will go close to the breech end of the barrel. Use this to slide a small primer in the 177 caliber gun. The anvil needs to be towards the front. If backwards the air charge will fire the primer in the barrel. Guess how I found that out?

Now you can shoot a brick wall or wood fence with about 4 pumps. Less is better than more. The primer will pop and make a fireball when it hits. For a 22 pump pistol just use a large rifle or pistol primer.

 

[NavyVet1959]

I have made exploding bullets. I used a winchester 158gr hollow point and drilled it out with a .177 drill. Now add 3F black powder that you grind even finer and add a small pistol primer to the nose. Now you can use a round nose seating plug to round the end of the bullet to hold the primer. They will explode on a 4x4" post and really blow the backside out. I only made a few and have no plans to make others. That was 30+ years ago after I got into reloading. I think the better hollow points are the correct answer.

But if you want to have some fun and own an air pistol like a crosman 1377 or the 22 caliber version try this. Make a wire that will go close to the breech end of the barrel. Use this to slide a small primer in the 177 caliber gun. The anvil needs to be towards the front. If backwards the air charge will fire the primer in the barrel. Guess how I found that out?

Now you can shoot a brick wall or wood fence with about 4 pumps. Less is better than more. The primer will pop and make a fireball when it hits. For a 22 pump pistol just use a large rifle or pistol primer.

Why did you choose to use black powder in the nose instead of a fast pistol powder?

 

[UncleEd]

Both the Confederate forces and the Federals during the Civil War/War Between the States/War of Northern Aggression/War on Southern Treason had access
to exploding bullets from time to time.

General Grant, later President, saw that such ammo was not perfected any further for use or used by American forces at least in his day.

 

[NavyVet1959]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXaaybiRiYY

 

[Bottom Gun]

The original Velet ammo used a #11 percussion cap with some grey colored powder that looked a lot like the powder used in firecrackers.

 

[ThomasT]

Navy vet says I used black powder because it is low explosive and smokeless is progressive burning. BP goes off all at once.

 

[NavyVet1959]

Navy vet says I used black powder because it is low explosive and smokeless is progressive burning. BP goes off all at once.

I've never dealt with black powder, but I was under the impression that it had lower pressure than smokeless.

 

[ShootistPRS]

I used just 1 grain of HP-38 in an exploding round decades ago and tested it on cured concrete, fir 3x6, and in a Fackler box. The bullet used was a 125 grain .357 bullet With the HP drilled, powder in the cavity and a sp primer over it. In front of 14 grains of H110 in a 38 Special case to be fired only in a 357 magnum. (the pressures would be too high for 38 Special) The explosive round was devastating when compared to any other bullet weight fired in the 357.
The cavity in cured concrete was 4 inches in diameter and 3/4 inch deep. In the fir it formed a funnel that saved the entrance hole and blew out a three inch hole at the exit of the three inch thick wood. In the Fackler box the round only penetrated 6 inches but the bullet was completely destroyed and the 2nd and 3rd gallon freezer bags were shredded.
I tested it as an ignition source in a rectangular, 1 gallon, paint thinner can that was empty except for two table spoons of gasoline. The can was shaken and placed in the sun until it bulged. When the exploding round hit the can the fumes were ignited and the resulting explosion was, to say the least, quite dramatic. There is no doubt in my mind that the round could be useful in detonating a fuel tank that was not full.
I would caution that the use of such ammo in a defense situation will put you in jail for a very long time. There is also a danger of the round igniting dried grass or other combustibles so using it as a "plinking" round is not advised.
I have no idea if the making of explosive ammo is even legal. I made and tested a limited amount strictly to do the research and have not made any since.

 

[ThomasT]

I've never dealt with black powder, but I was under the impression that it had lower pressure than smokeless.

You really owe it to yourself to pick up a couple of pounds to play with.

 

[ShootistPRS]

In firearms black powder produces 10,000 to 12,000 PSI typically. A 1" pipe has a bursting pressure of 8000 to 8100 psi so black powder can easily be made into a bomb. The thing about black powder is it burns at nearly the same speed whether contained or in the open. It is a "slow" explosive. Smokeless powder burns faster when contained than it does in the open. It can be made to detonate given high enough pressures and/or heat. An "explosive" bullet using smokeless powder can generate both heat and pressure high enough to cause detonation. Igniting the powder while the bullet is deforming does a good job of lowering the containment size and raising the temperature of the burning powder. With a high energy double base powder, like HP-38, which contains up to 42% nitroglycerin it takes very little to generate a lot of pressure.
I don't know what charge was used in the "exploding" rounds manufactured but I do remember one such round that used an inert liquid with a steel ball over it. I don't believe it was actually explosive but just a very fast expanding bullet. Some of the old pistol and rifle signal flares could explode when fired into steel targets but it was more like a fire-cracker than anything else.
Anyone who wants to "play" with black powder should take all the safety options available to them. There are many injuries from such "play". It is also very easy to step over the line of bomb making which is a federal offense.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...hollow point bullets with a primer..." Played with by assorted reloaders years ago. Most of whom saw it in a Mack Bolan novel or in 'Day of The Jackal'. Unreliable at best.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source of accurate info.
Any normal .22 LR bullet will disintegrate in newspapers stuffed in a box. They don't need to be "explosive". Real Silvertips, that were a semi-jacketed bullet with an Al cap on the exposed lead, didn't need any explosives either. A very decidedly rapid expansion with them.
"Incendiary" ammo does not explode. It has fire staring chemicals. Very bad Juju shooting 'em on a dry range too. Banned on ranges for a reason.

 

[Snyper]

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of accurate info.

It is if there are footnotes that give the actual sources, or links that lead to other sources.

 

[ThomasT]

Anyone who wants to "play" with black powder should take all the safety options available to them.

Excellent advice. Especially if you are not inclined to use reason and common sense when experimenting. Anything that burns, explodes or has the ability to destroy everything around it if used foolishly should not be used by folks from the shallow end of the gene pool.