Expectation to Intervene with OC?

[Uncle Buck]

Danite: Your statement MAY be true in areas where open carry in not regularly seen.

As for the question Glen poses: I just do not know. I retired in 2004 and then again in 2006.

I have only come upon one situation in which a bunch of kids seemed to be egging on one to beat the other. I stepped in and yelled "Knock it off! I have called the police." The kids scattered and I stuck around with the kid that was getting beat until the police arrived.

I had no gun. Maybe the fact that an adult broke the mob mentality had something to do with it, or the fact the kids involved grew up in a town where parents still had control of their kids, could be a deciding factor.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It's a gun! It's not a magical, anti-matter, molecular destabilizer, with built-in super-conductor and microwave.

Are you certain?

If you're right, I need to have a serious talk with the guy at my local gun shop, 'cause I'm quite sure when he sold me on my MK XVII Mega-Blaster Pro Tactical he swore it was all of the above. If it's not ... then the $19.79 (plus tax) I paid was entirely too much.

 

[BlueTrain]

Just when was open carry normal?

 

[MLeake]

BlueTrain, in some places, OC STILL IS normal.

And I can remember people openly carrying rifles or shotguns to go out hunting, or just to go plinking in fields, when I grew up in Maine in the 70's.

I also remember when rifles and shotguns were routinely carried in racks in vehicles; this includes in the vehicles of high school students in school parking lots during hunting season.

In some areas, it hasn't been normal for decades, or even a hundred years. In some areas, it became abnormal within fairly recent history.

In some areas, it's legal but not too common (GA, VA).

In some areas, it's quite common, outside major cities (CO, AZ).

Seems a lot of TFL members assume their local norms are universal, and that they have always existed. Both assumptions are false.

 

[BlueTrain]

Your experiences were different. I don't remember seeing any rifles or shotguns in any cars in the parking lot at my high school and that was in West Virginia. I never saw anyone wearing a pistol or revolver who was not a law officer until a year or so ago when I spotted a motorcyclist with one. But also, when I was still in school, motorcyclists were the bad guys.

At any rate, I'm glad you pointed out the obvious.

 

[FireForged]

I do not OC but will answer the general question of response.

If I observe a crime that involves danger to a person, I certainly would call 911, that is a given.

It is not likely that I would bring a firearm into the middle of a fist fight... Even less likely if the fist fight didnt involve me. Even if i didnt draw my handgun, I would still be bringing it into that fluid situation if I get physically involved. I mean, it would really have to be crystal clear that some innocent person was going to lose their life (right here and right now) if I failed to act. If it were actually that dire, I would not rule out "getting physically involved".

Someone in the act of robbing a store (with a firearm) is a little different. I wouldnt run into a store to confront a badguy or chase a badguy down the street- but if I was already there, I would "probably" take action to stop the robbery.

 

[Carry_24/7]

I think OC being a "norm" is a dream of the few, and everyone is entitled to their dreams. I have no wish to OC, even if I could in FL. I like and prefer concealed carry, but, to each their own.

 

[Evan Thomas]

...let's say, you are OC'ing. A bad thing happens.

1. Will folks think you are law and demand you act? You do see OC around here and its the law. I once ate at a fancy restaurant and a set of nicely dressed women in slacks came in with Glocks (the law).

2. Will others see the gun and even if they don't think you are the law - yell for you to join in?

3. Does the overt presence prime you more to intervene? A hidden gun might not suggest action as well as open one that you chose the public to see.

1. This seems to me to be a distinct possibility -- certainly in the city, if I notice that someone is carrying, my first thought is "Prolly a cop."

2. This could go either way, I think, assuming they notice the gun at all, which they may not, in the middle of some sort of incident. Depending on the nature of the "incident," if they do notice the gun, they may not assume that you're a "good guy" -- the law or otherwise. That would be a risk.

3. This is the interesting question, IMHO -- and I think it's worth noting that cause and effect can in principle go either way here.

It's possible that open carry might "prime you" to intervene, but it's not clear to me that I'd be more aware of a gun I'm carrying openly than of one I carry concealed. (since I don't OC, I can't speak to this from personal experience -- perhaps Sakeneko or someone else who carries both ways can address this?)

But isn't it also possible that at least some people who choose to open carry may do so because they have a more "interventionist" mindset to begin with? So -- if open carriers are more likely to intervene (which is an empirical question), we don't automatically know if the openly carried gun is the cart, so to speak, or if it's the horse.

That darn "correlation vs. causation" thing again...

 

[BlueTrain]

There is a reason and a time to have a firearm, only it isn't like most people imagine, as I see it. Understand, however, that armed people have power. The question is, what is it going to be used for?

Forget anything about target shooting or hunting. Those are legitimate uses but are irrelevant to the main issues.

You think you might want to overthrow the government someday? Go ahead if you want. What you'll get will be worse than what you have already. But they say all politics is local, so take over the county courthouse.

That's no joke. In places where armed citizens have stood up and fought for their rights, not necessarily successfully at first, it generally starts on the courthouse steps. But not against the county government, such as it is, but against the hired guns of corporations. You think the free enterprise system is the greatest thing about America. Maybe it, when it is, only sometimes it isn't free at all. How'd you like to have a job where you got paid in company credits that you could only use at the company store? Cause a problem and they'll throw you out of your house, which the company owns, too.

Oh, the company has lots of pat slogans to trot out when things get bad. They're all communists down at the plant or the mine or the mill. It's them out-of-state troublemakers that's causing all the problems.

You may have read many derogatory references to unions on this forum. I suppose you can guess my sympathies.

 

[Wildalaska]

But isn't it also possible that at least some people who choose to open carry may do so because they have a more "interventionist" mindset to begin with?

Excellent

WildthreadcomingAlaska™©2002-2011

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Nope. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't exert influence. For those of us who always carry, the presence or absence of a gun is immaterial.

Unfortunately, you might think it is true for you. But we have a fair amount of evidence that the presence of a firearm influences cognition and affect.

Also, even if you think it has no influence on you, many of us (most of us) have small insight into unconcious processing.

Tons of example on that.

I appreciate that causality on the action of the OC'er is problematic with correlation vs causality. The problem is that real experiments with OC'ers is problematic due to gunfire.

One also has to factor in significantly trained folks to those who are not.

Interesting conjecture. Might be fun to run OC vs CCW FOF on exercises and unbeknownst to the role player have another demand action of the OC and see what he or see does.

I've been in a few of these and it's fun. People get all flummoxed under pressure to act.

I played a crazed veteran with a knife in a convenience store, standing in the middle waving a knife. The student was playing an armed clerk. Half the customers yelled to shoot him. Half yelled that the guy was known to be a sick vet and don't. Note, I didn't threaten anyone - just rave.

The student was paralyzed. So imagine yourself as an OC in that one. Easy to say now that you will be Superwarrior. Folks freeze or shoot innocents or whatever.