Errr...Humor me. Why isn't there a .270-08?

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rnovi

New member
Ok, humor me. Call me curious. Call me stupid. Call me...whatever.

But why isn't there a .270-08?

We've got the following rounds based off the 30-06 (among others...):

25-06, 270 win, 30-06, 35-06 (aka, the Whelen), and a whole host of other rounds based off the classic '06 case.

The .308 was created, in effect, to be a short '06. From the .308 case we have:

22-250, 243, 260 rem, 7mm-08, 308, .358, and others.

And recently now we have the 270 WSM.

What the? Whatever happened to the 270-08? Wouldn't it make sense to have such a round? More accurately, wouldn't it have made sense to have created such a round already? What am I missing here?

Somehow logic escapes me on this. Sure, I doubt the round would be much more effective than the 7mm-08. But based on the success of the 270 win, wouldn't it have made sense to wildcat a 270-08 long before someone wildcated the the 7mm-08?

Or, is there a cartridge out there that I just plain have never heard of before that is the 270-08?

Of course, with the 270 WSM, the concept of a 270-08 is kinda moot. Still, I am curious of the lacking history of why a 270-08 was never created...


(PS: or is the 270-08 really the 6.8mm SPC under a screwy name? And why does 6.8mm convert to 2.67716" - where the .270 is actually .277" and the 7mm is .284... so the 6.8 doesn't appear to be a 270-08...)
Anyone? What am I missing? Logically the 270-08 sounds like it should have been a short-action winner...
 
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taylorce1

New member
There have been .270-08 built but only by wildcatters. I show two cartridges in my book "Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion" a .270-308 and a .270-308 AI. It shows 3041 fps with a 130 grain bullet out of the .270-308, and 2817 fps with 150 grain bullets out of the AI.

I'm sure that this would have been a good round to produce commercially but only if you could have developed it around the same time as the original .270 Winchester. The .270 Win is just to good of a cartridge for the .270-308 to ever find a big enough following to be successful as a commercial round. If the Military would adopt this round as it's new cartridge then it would have a shot as a commercial cartridge. The 6.8 SPC if I'm correct is using the old .30 Remington case for its design.

BTW the .22-250 was produced by necking down the .250 Savage cartridge. But there are quite a few people out there shooting the .22-243, but again it just can't take away a large enough share of the market to be successful against the .22-250. My book says that you can form the .22-250 from .243 brass, you need to trim back about .060 from the .243 case to make it the right length.
 
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joshua

New member
I agree with you. The 270-08 would make a fine short action round. We have a line of commercial rounds in popular caliber for short action, but being the 22-250 and 250 Savage not a true 308 parent case following. To use the 308 case neck down to 22 would be the Cheetah wildcat, way overbore. The 243 is about OK if not a little overbore, and the 260 Rem have a strong following in the competition circle. Taking into consideration that the difference between the .264 and .277 being only .013", but some will argue the difference between .277 and .284 is even smaller. With the 260 Rem becoming more and more popular and with better designed 6.5mm bullet it just decreases the chance of a 270-308 commercial loading. The 7mm and 6.5 have an advantage in the variety of bullets available for the handloader, with the 6.5mm being develop more as a competition round. The advantage the 270 Win over the 260 Rem is the velocity factor being a standard length round. If you want a 270-08, the closest thing to it is the 7-08. josh
 
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mikejonestkd

New member
IMO, not that is worth much...

arguably the .270-06 ( the .270 win ) is just about perfect for deer hunting in a long action rifle, so........

The .270-08 would be just about right for deer in a short action rifle. I think that the 7mm-08 and 6.5mm-08 ( the .260 rem ) are great too.

I would not hesitate to use any of them for deer or other similar sized game.

call remington and tell them to start production!!!
 
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FirstFreedom

Moderator
It's an excellent question with no good answer. I would like to see a .270-08 myself. Perhaps an even better unanswered question is why is the 6.5mm-'06 still a wildcat and not picked up and marketed by any major ammo company. It's the missing puzzle piece in the .30-'06 family of cartridges.
 
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Crosshair

New member
Because IMHO the 7mm caliber is far more versitile than the 270 caliber. Wider selection of bullet weights, higher BC, etc. The 7-08 fills that.
 
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rnovi

New member
Crosshair,

Yep, I know about the selection of 7mm bullets. And as I mentioned, I'm not so sure that a 270-08 even serves a purpose with the 7mm-08 and 270wsm out there.

This is more of a historical question. The 270 Win existed long before the 308 was ever created. It would make sense that if one was going wildcat a round, they would base it off an existing bullet diameter to take advantage of existing bullets.

The 7mm-08 is what, 30 years old? The 270 is 75 + years old?

It just makes sense to me that a 270-08 should have been wildcated 20 years sooner than than the 7mm-08 was...

This is more of a historical question than anything else. I'm truly not sure that there is an answer here. I'm curious why the wildcatters didn't make a 270-08. Was there a flaw in the concept (270 bullets too long that they took up too much case space and reduced powder capacity? Bullets not fast enough to stabilize? 270 cal bullets not constructed right? Timing, Sputnik, and the phase of the moon?).

I rather like the argument that the reason a 270-08 was never created was because the 270 Win was such a great cartridge...Sadly, then, why did we ever create the .308 when it's not much more than a shortened '06? (yeah, I know, military wanted a lighter cartridge blah blah blah. Create a military cartridge and it's a virtual guarantee that it will be a commercial success as well. Still, follow my logic here...).

Total aside: I didn't know that the 22-250 was based off the 250 Savage...good point. But yeah, I do know that the 270wsm is based on a totally different case than the .308. My point was that the 270wsm is a short action cartridge - just as the 270-08 would be a short action cartridge.

Personally, I really like the idea of a 270-08. If TC offers a 270TC round, that could well be a big hit. I like the 270wsm, but I really don't need the magnum range and capacity. Heck, 250 yards is a long shot for me.
 
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Gewehr98

New member
Even more to the point...

Because there's a 6.5-08, aka .260 Remington. Until somebody comes up with a selection of .277" bullets that approach the BC of the 6.5mm/.264" family, the .270 bore usually gets relegated to non-target/precision roles, be it in the .30-06 case or the .308 case. That's too bad, because I use .270 Winchester brass to make my 6.5-06 brass from, and the .270 Winchester has earned a reputation as a wonderful hunting round.

The "-08" family of cartridges is already pretty crowded. There's the .243 Winchester, .260 Remington, and 7mm-08. The .25-08, aka .25 Souper never made the legitimate list, nor did the .270-08.
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
I'm just guessing, but after the 1950s, most wildcatters were messing around with stuff more suited to benchrest, or with Big Thumpers for African game or North American big bears. The deer cartridge niche had pretty much been filled with many options.

Art
 
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The Gamemaster

New member
I have to agree with Art.

After the 50's people wanted Magnum Cartridges and not baby magnum cartridges.

Bigger was better.

If it wasn't for that we wouldn't have the selection that we have today.

The 2nd reason was because we fought the Japs and the Germans during WW II and they were using Metric Calibers of guns and we did not want anything to do with 6.5mm, 7mm, 8mm's.... It was just too unamerican.

The 7mm08 is as close to a .270/08 as you are going to get.

Unless you get a big company like Hornady to make the shells in a large production run, and get a large gun manufacturer like HOWA or Savage to make the gun an exclusive that no other manufacturer can make for atleast 5 years.

Then you would be able to develop it as a alternative for the 7mm08.

If the cartridge failed they could both end up in the poor house...
 
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el Divino

New member
7.62x57 or 308x57

for the same reasons we don't have a 7.62x57 or we should call it 308x57, should be a perfect hunting and target shooting round
 
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rem33

Moderator
Isn't the 7mm Remington Express, whats now called the 280 already available?
Sorry I didn't read every word in every post so maybe I missed something. Or do I have my calibrs wrong as this is from memory and have't looked into this in a long time.

270 based on a '06 case isn't the 280 also?
 
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Charles S

New member
rem33,

You are correct, the 270 and 280 are both based on the 30-06 case.

I personally think it is a great question. I have been following this thread for a while. I like rnovi are more interested in the history.
 
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rem33

Moderator
MY mistake I sould pay better attention.
A .277 bullet from a 308 parent case is a interesting thought. With everything that has came along over the last 50 years it is a good question.
Isn't the newer 6.8 very close?


H2715 270 CAL/6.8 SPC 115GR BTHP W/C $17.50 PER 100

Weidners is calling the 6.8 a 270 when in actually it isn't? hmmm
 
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Jim Watson

New member
Gee, rnovi, the .270-08 HAS been wildcatted, as Taylorce1 already said.
If you want one, call your gunsmith.
If you want history, check into the .270 Titus, which is a .300 Savage necked down to give Savage 99 shooters the bullet in style at the time.
The P.O. Ackley books are a lot of fun to read, but I'd be real cautious about using their loads.

It is hard to tell who knew about what and when they knew it, but it appears that the .270 Winchester was a knockoff of the 7x64 Brenneke using, for some reason, the bullet diameter of the obscure 6.8mm Chinese Mauser.

Note that the .270 case is .046" longer than .30-06 and only .024" shorter than .30-03. Wonder if they found a big supply of partly formed '03 brass at the factory and decided to get some use out of it?

Note that the .280 is not just a 7mm-06, it's shoulder is about .050" farther forward, so as to keep you from cramming one into a .270 rifle.

The 6.8 Remington SPC shoots .277" bullets out of a case with the head diameter of the old .30 Remington but shortened to fit an AR magazine. Bullets are the same diameter as for .270 Win but are relatively light and short so as to keep OAL down to what the AR will accept.

If you try to match a cartridge's name with the actual dimensions of bullet and barrel, you will go nuts.
Just as an example of advertising nomenclature versus real measurements, consider that .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester ALL shoot .224" bullets.
 
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