Effectiveness of handheld stun guns

[perception]

Keep working on your wife Wynterbourne. I met a girl about 4 years ago who also had personal reasons to intensly dislike firearms, but I always carry so she has had to get used to at least seeing them, although she generally cringed. The other day though, she came up to me and told me that she wanted to go shoot sometime. It about knocked me off my feet. I think that there is hope for everyone, it just takes some time.

 

[G56]

Here is my experience with stun guns, back in the late 80's stun guns were the hot item in law enforcement, everybody was getting them. The interesting thing about stun guns is that you never know how an individual will react to them, some guys it puts down, right now, incredible, others will just stand there and laugh at you, all they get is a tickle, the vast majority of the people will feel it pretty good, that's when their mental attitude takes over, it might make them mad and really start fighting, or it might make them want to stop fighting, so the results were less than stellar. We guessed at the time that body chemistry has something to do with how a particular person reacts, but keep in mind that if someone is really hopped up on something it often fails to work very well, they can fight through it.

The fad that was going on lasted 2 or 3 years then died out, stun guns weren't dependable so the officers quit carrying them. Now they are back in fashion, to the best of my knowledge the technology has not changed at all. So the effectiveness of the stun gun is quite mixed, better than nothing, pepper spray is often more dependable than a stun gun, just keep in mind some people can fight even after they have been hit by pepper spray! Neither one can guarantee your wife's safety.

 

[mec]

I used to make my self real not popular at the hand held stun gun tables at the gun shows. Zapped myself with everything from the 50,000 volt tinglers to the 250,000 volt models. The powerful ones are a bit painful and leave snake-eyes on your skin. I would hold the thing against my forearm while holding a ball point pen between thumb and forefinger. Vibration took place but, I wouldn't drop the pen.

 

[perception]

In y electronics and electricity class, we did a lot of work with electricity, and one of the things we measured was that different people have much different internal resistances. The same voltage will lay someone out, while their partner could take it and barely even notice. I guess it goes the same as anything else, some people go down with one shot, and in a recent CCW class, the teacher told of a guy that took over 100 rounds and was still coming. I dont know how valid that story is, but it illustrates the point.

 

[Kruniac]

Tasers arent effective because they "OH DEAR GOD I CANT MOVE", they are effective because "OH DEAR GOD I GOT ELECTROCUTED AND I HEAR A ZAP AND AHHH".

Psych tactics are wonderful, neh? Anyway, for those that dont want to risk someone not caring about getting tasered, stick to mace.

Mace them while they are standing. Mace them while they are falling. Mace them once more while they are laying. Leave and call the police.

 

[jonathon]

In y electronics and electricity class, we did a lot of work with electricity, and one of the things we measured was that different people have much different internal resistances. The same voltage will lay someone out, while their partner could take it and barely even notice. I guess it goes the same as anything else, some people go down with one shot, and in a recent CCW class, the teacher told of a guy that took over 100 rounds and was still coming. I dont know how valid that story is, but it illustrates the point.

I know what test you are talking abuot.. I did the same thing. It actually measures the resistance of your skin.

I can't imagine tasers being effective at all, since there is no current in them at all, and current is what will do damage, not voltage.

 

[Capt. Charlie]

OK, I gotta dispute this one. Along with "riding the full five" myself, I've deployed the X-26 Taser on several occasions, and I defy anyone to overcome a PROPERLY deployed Taser! On one occasion, I tased a suicidal giant of a man that was both drunk and high, and trying to push a knife into his chest. The result was instantaneous and devastating. The man went down like a felled oak tree. And as for riding the full five, talk to anyone whose gone through Taser training and taken the hit, and they'll tell you without blushing that these things hurt like hell!!! From what I've seen, when they do fail, it's almost always operator error: Wrong probes for winter clothing, shooting on the run, etc. There may be a lot of media hype going on about them, but I've seen them save lives. By the way, the myth about body builders being able to overcome them is just that: A myth. The more muscle mass a person has, the more effective the Taser is.

 

[jburtonpdx]

hmm

http://kimmershow.com/fileTamer/tazered.wmv

Looks like it was effective that time...

 

[Teufelhunden]

What makes the Tazer so much better than a handheld stunner?

A handheld stunner depends on pain compliance (and fear) to obtain the desired end results. The TASER takes the decision making process out of the bad-guy's hands. A TASER's electronic wavelengths are designed to run in sync with the wavelengths your brain uses to control your muscles. When you're taking that 5 second ride, your mind is entirely clear (aside from the pain), but you can not move. Most people lock up and fall over-- though a few of our deputies that I've witness being tased went straight up on their toes, locked straight out like lightpoles. The only thing keeping them up was the other deputies holding them erect. A good source for videos of the TASER in use is TASER International itself.

Another poster mentioned the difficulty of getting both darts in the target--it's not actually that hard. There is a laser on the TASER that illuminates the point of impact for the top dart; the bottom dart is aimed 6 degrees lower that the top. Even if you only get one dart in and the opponent closes to contact range, you can apply the TASER directly to the opponents body to complete the circuit and still get the same effect.

Having sung it's praises, I still do not think it to be the best option for personal (portable) self defense. The M18 is as big as the M26 I carry at work, but I wear a duty belt. I do not think most people want to wander around with a giant TASER strapped to a duty belt during their day. Subject recovery once the current stops is almost instantaneous--it has to be since the tool was designed for compliance and law enforcement users will be giving clear, loud, concise directions to the subject and expecting him to comply by this point.

Spray will have detrimental effects on the target for around 20 minutes, is much cheaper to practice with, and has less of a media-stigma than the TASER. Considering how they've been vilifying cops using the TASER recently, I'm curious to see how major news outlets will respond to the first publicised tasing of a goblin by a non-LEO operator. There are always civil lawsuits to consider unfortunately.

-Teuf

 

[DaddyLongLegs]

My 2 cents

Stun guns = 100% useless against anything. I have idiot friends in the music business who purchase some of the larger capacity stun guns off gunbroker.com and shock each other on a regular basis to show off. I too was tempted to shock myself with one, and unless someone can get this stun gun placed at the base of the attackers neck, a stung gun will do little more than piss someone off.

Tazers, the ones that shot the two probes into the attacker require a bit of aim and a bit of training to use. They look and work much like a hand gun in the sense you have to draw the weapon, aim the weapon and fire. A attacker can always pull out the probes once they are shot into them.

Non lethal defense in my opinion still falls down to a good mace type of weapon. A good alternative to mace is one of those large Ortho or like brand large spray cans of wasp killer. You know the large can that can spray 15 to 30 foot in the air. Make sure you pick a really nasty brand if you go this rout. The warnings on the cans of this stuff for “if you get this in your eyes” reads like a horror story and the manner in which this stuff sprays is like one of those larger water guns. Its just a idea and something that can harmlessly be placed on the night stand that no one will think twice about.

 

[abelew]

You say that an attacker could pull the probes out after being shot, however I disagree. The tazer automatically sends a 5 second pulse immediatly when the trigger is pulled, so the person wouldn't be able to move at all, since it tenses up the muscles, and isn't a pain control (even though it supposedly hurts quite badly). If you keep holding the trigger, it keeps the current flowing.

I saw a police video that emphasized this: Drunk guy is being billigerent with a cop on side of road. Cop is going to arrest him, but he resists and fights with the officer untill the officer disengages the subject, draws and shoots drunk with tazer. Guy, even while stupid drunk, completly tenses up, falls down. After the 5 second timer in the tazer stops the current, the officer instructs the person to put his hands behind his back (to handcuff subject), subject is not being shocked at the moment, and refuses in a not-so-nice way. Officer repeats this 6 more times. Subject finally begs officer to stop and complies, officer tells subject to put his hands behind his back again, and subject excliams "I cant move." Officer handcuffs subject. Point is, that the subject's muscles were so worn out by being repetitly strained that he couldn't even put his hands behind his back.

 

[Capt. Charlie]

Our Dept. uses both the M-26 and X-26 Tasers, and they not only work exceptionally well, they save lives. We have used Tasers in two attempted suicides in the last year with great success. One was armed with a knife, the other with an axe. Too dangerous to approach, both people were felled like an old oak tree and disarmed without injury to anyone. On top of that, we do have to take a hit during training. Let me tell you, they hurt like hell! That said, we used to carry both the Nova and Ultron stun guns. While they were somewhat successful (more for the psychological effect than anything), there's a night and day difference between stun guns and the Taser. If they're deployed right and the probes enter any of the major muscle masses, there is no one on this planet that can successfully fight one. The link below is to actual videos of Taser deployment. As you can see, alcohol, cocaine, even PCP are no defense.

http://www.taser.com/law/videos.htm