Double standard?

[Socrates]

Tyranny by the minority, and the stupid. Our legal system has created a serious fear, because it's run by the stupid, and rare morons in this world.

Get drunk, high, climb in a tiger cage, throw stuff at it, piss it off, and it eats, and chews on you. Hasn't happened in about 50 years I've gone to that zoo. Tigers have got out, but, they walk around, jump back in. You have to be really stupid, or high, to piss one off.

So, the zoo must spend millions to make the display drunk, high, idiot proof.

Bad cases make bad law, and, our current system allows these cases to govern our society.

Brandon Lee got the great idea that a blank couldn't hurt him, shot himself in the head with a 44 magnum blank, and died. That was with a Hollywood, 'unloaded' gun.

People should be allowed to be stupid, and, kill themselves every once in awhile. Cleanses the gene pool, and, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for their stupidity.

What all this smacks of us a step down the slippery slope. We try and protect the public perception of a firearms forum, yet stomp on the First Amendment in the process.

Keep in mind, in saying that, I realize this is a privately owned forum, and, that the First Amendment applies only to governments, state or Federal. Still, the spirit of the First Amendment certainly turns over in it's grave when pictures are banned, which are more or less art...

 

[Socrates]

I was just cruising around Flickr looking at photos and came across this. Every single finger is on the trigger! Unbelievable. It's because of people like this that it's getting harder and harder for those of us with some common sense to purchase and possess firearms.

*sigh*

The comments by the original poster that it is harder for us to get guns, thanks to such posters is the biggest crock I've ever heard.

Art has NOTHING to do with our gun laws. Elected officials, lobbying groups, and idiots making laws, both state and federal, where they shouldn't exist, and, us keeping them in office is the problem, not some idiots photo.

 

[easyG]

every gun is always loaded.

"i know, but what if..."

every gun is ALWAYS loaded.

"but, how about..."

EVERY gun is ALWAYS loaded.

This is just mindless parroting till the point that it becomes meaningless.

How do you clean and disassemble your firearms if they're always loaded?

Do you give your firearm to a gunsmith if it's loaded?

 

[JohnKSa]

Brandon Lee got the great idea that a blank couldn't hurt him, shot himself in the head with a 44 magnum blank, and died. That was with a Hollywood, 'unloaded' gun.

No he didn't. He was killed while shooting a scene in a movie. The exact details are unclear but it's obvious that there was a prop screwup and also that whatever happened wasn't Lee's fault. Jon Erik Hexum is who you're thinking of. He shot himself in the head at a party with a .44 Mag loaded with blanks.

This is just mindless parroting till the point that it becomes meaningless.

It's not meaningless. The point is that people are fallible and sometimes (often?) believe a gun is unloaded when it's not. Always maintaining muzzle control can prevent loss of life in the event of an error.

It has far more to do with the value of and respect for human life than with whether the gun is actually loaded or not.

 

[Socrates]

Actually, every gun I own is loaded, all the time. Why?
What's the use of an unloaded gun, when you really need one?

 

[ShootemDown]

every gun is always loaded.

"i know, but what if..."

every gun is ALWAYS loaded.

"but, how about..."

EVERY gun is ALWAYS loaded.

Would be nice if it were, I'd never have to go buy ammo anymore. I could just imagine myself at the range, shot the whole mag and the gun is empty, but then magicially POOF ! another round in the chamber ! , and another , and another ! woo weee ! where do they come from ?

 

[Playboypenguin]

Would be nice if it were, I'd never have to go buy ammo anymore. I could just imagine myself at the range, shot the whole mag and the gun is empty, but then magicially POOF ! another round in the chamber

It would be cool...but only if the guns magically never got dirty too.

 

[novaDAK]

Would be nice if it were, I'd never have to go buy ammo anymore. I could just imagine myself at the range, shot the whole mag and the gun is empty, but then magicially POOF ! another round in the chamber ! , and another , and another ! woo weee ! where do they come from ?

The purpose of the "all guns are always loaded" rule, is to keep people trained to handle all guns as if they're loaded. If people did this, there wouldn't be "accidents" anymore, because if someone has their finger on the trigger (which they shouldn't unless they're ready to shoot) and puts a round through the floor, at least they were holding it in a "safe" direction.

If one gets in the habbit of taking an 'unloaded' gun and treating it differently than a 'loaded' gun, eventually, they are going to screw up and hurt themselves or someone else (or even kill) because they "thought" the 'loaded' gun was 'unloaded'.

 

[mamboreta]

At home, when someone I know feels curious about the "guns world" I take my gun and point it at a safe direction with my finger away from the trigger, remove the magazine, rack the slide two or three times and check with my finger and my eyes, making sure the chamber is empty. Then, with the empty magazine on it, I hand it to that guy that may end up becoming a fan of the sport and responsable shooter. In that kind of condition, the gun is just a hammer and if he is in the mood for a bruise, he can smack himself silly: my Sig can take it.

There´s a lot of people afraid of guns. They think guns are nothing but killing machines always ready to slaughter their babies in their sleep, but guns can be beautiful. Guns can be safe, and, of course, theay can also be fun, fun, fun.

If you just checked the gun in your hand carefully and seriously, and it´s unloaded, then it´s unloaded. If your gun is still capable of shooting without ammo, then clean it (i suggest you to wear a bulletproof vest while you do it) and put a price on it, because I´m buying it. Cash.

That idiot take a picture that I would never take, but any Daytona should be banned as well, if the original idea is to protect the kids from the temptation of speeding up while driving. Not to mention all that movies where the "passionate" sex takes control of the situation and no condoms are shown.

 

[easyG]

The purpose of the "all guns are always loaded" rule,....

There is no "all guns are always loaded" rule.

But there is the "treat every gun as if it's loaded until you have personally verified that it is unloaded" rule.

 

[chopz]

my opinion: pointing a gun at someone's head for a pose is a bit like pretending you're going to curbjaw them. i don't know about you, but the second one gives me the heebie jeebies. if the first one doesn't bother someone even more than the second than they probably shouldn't be handling firearms.

i'll never turn any gun toward myself to look down its barrel - again, heebie jeebies. not unless the barrel is removed from the gun.

i just consider the act of pointing a firearm at someone the equivalent of calling them the most foul name imaginable. i wouldn't do it to someone else, and i'd be pretty angry if they did it to me.

 

[Manedwolf]

Regarding the Lee case, the findings seem to have been that in a previous scene, the propmaster did something inexcusably negligent, making "fake" rounds for show by pulling the bullets, dumping the powder, and reassembling them with the primer still in place.

Apparently, one of these was "fired". The primer was just enough to jam the bullet in the revolver's forcing cone.

Then, when the revolver was loaded with blanks for the scene, the power of the blank was enough to propel the previous squib at enough velocity to cause a fatal injury to Lee.

This is why I think the propmaster should have been brought up on charges. Set "gun wranglers" are never, EVER EVER EVER supposed to use or even bring live rounds on the set for any purpose. That, and failing to inspect the barrel of the gun before using it with blanks pointed at an actor. Totally inexcusable.

 

[novaDAK]

There is no "all guns are always loaded" rule.

There is where I was brought up. My father followed this rule, and he as never had an "accident" with a gun in his life.
Even after I personally inspect a firearm and verify it is unloaded, I still don't point it at anything I'm not willing to destroy. And I don't have my finger on the trigger unless I'm pulling it.

 

[EastSideRich]

This (or at least part of this) boils down to trust and confidence.
I trust myself to decide if a gun is safe (unloaded). If I check, maybe double or triple check, I have no doubt whether the gun is loaded or not. I completely trust my own judgment as to whether or not a firearm is unloaded. Some people may not (have complete confidence in their judgement). I do not trust others to determine whether a firearm is empty for me.

EVERY gun is ALWAYS loaded.

Unless I check it, then it is empty if I say it is.

I still try to practice proper muzzle control. I don't want someone else pointing a gun at me and I don't think anyone else wants me pointing a gun at them. If I am careless and the gun is loaded, that is dangerous. If I say the gun is empty, no one else should count on my assessment that the gun is empty, and should be upset if it is pointed in their direction.
Some people are safety Nazis, and if one of the "four rules" is broken, you are irresponsible, an idiot, can not be trusted with a firearm, etc, etc. I know some people have had "accidents" with guns they thought were unloaded, but some people can be careless and/or stupid.
As far as taking pictures and such, if someone wants to convey something by capturing a certain image, their safety is their own responsibility. That goes for anyone involved. If you want to let someone stick the barrel of a revolver in your mouth for a picture, I hope you at least have the sense to make sure it’s empty. If not, good luck. It may be tacky and tasteless, but a lot of “art” is.

Also, NEVER trust kitty. They will look you dead in the eye and tell you "Don't worry, it's empty" when they know damn well it’s not!

 

[Mal H]

Still, the spirit of the First Amendment certainly turns over in it's grave when pictures are banned, which are more or less art...

I'm sorry, Socrates, I must have missed it. Which picture was banned here?

 

[Manedwolf]

I completely trust my own judgment as to whether or not a firearm is unloaded.

Famous.

Last.

Words.



I guess you never, ever, make a mistake on anything, EVER?

 

[mamboreta]

Quote:
Famous.
Last.
Words.

I guess you never, ever, make a mistake on anything, EVER?

Come on!

If we can´t check our guns and make ourselves sure they´re unloaded, maybe we shouldn´t be handling guns. It´s the first thing about firearms you teach your kids, and the first thing any decent instructor will teach you.

Do you stay away from Air Force exhibitons too, in order to not risking yourself to a maybe-possibly-not-unloaded-missile?

Pardon my rusty english.

 

[EastSideRich]

I've made plenty of mistakes. I have been careless many times.
I've never made that mistake. I am never careless with firearms.

If somehow I do put a hole in myself someday by way of carelessness, that's natural selection hard at work.

 

[easyG]

Even after I personally inspect a firearm and verify it is unloaded, I still don't point it at anything I'm not willing to destroy. And I don't have my finger on the trigger unless I'm pulling it.

So let's say you own a revolver....
You swing out the cylinder and visually check to see if it's loaded....
You see that each chamber is empty....
You close the cylinder....

And now you tell me that you're still too scared to point it at anything or even touch the trigger???

 

[Playboypenguin]

There is no "all guns are always loaded" rule.

But there is the "treat every gun as if it's loaded until you have personally verified that it is unloaded" rule.

Agreed..I think it is funny that someone will raise a stink about a staged photo and start yelling "all guns are always loaded" but then go home and practice dry firing their pistols or practice drawing.

And I still haven't heard anyone address whether Oleg posters where guns are pointed at the camera or at bad guys are bad for the pro-gun community. I am sensing a bit of elitism here. like it is only okay when certain people do it.