Does McCain look petty?

[DukeNukem]

The left (of the time) did admire and support Mussolini and Hitler until they began invading other countries. They were fellow socialists, afterall.

It always makes my skin crawl to hear people today call themselves "progressives" given the Progressive Movement's dark history and the influence it had on Hitler.

 

[LanceOregon]

Playboy Penguin's evidence here is LAUGHABLE!!! Just more left-wing bloggers and political pundits engaging in speculation.

Folks, here is the actual REALITY of the situation. Dick Cheney is currently in Tbilisi, Georgia today. He met with the President of Georgia over 4 hours ago!!

So while all of these ridiculous left-wing pundits were engaging in all of this politically motivated speculation, Cheney has actually been very busy this past week preparing to undertake an important diplomatic mission to visit Georgia, and show America's support for that struggling nation and world hotspot. And since Cheney has traveled literally to the other side of the world, he probably spent much of yesterday in the air.

In any event, this is just another example of the double standard that Playboy Penguin uses in this forum when discussing politics. He gleefully swallows and promotes here any rumor or unfounded attack that suits his political position. But when the shoe is on the other foot and Obama gets criticized, he cries out FOUL!

Here are some news stories this morning about Dick Cheney's important diplomatic mission to Georgia:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090400858.html?hpid=topnews

The BBC even has a video of the speech that Cheney gave in Tibilisi today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7597336.stm

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[Bzamazama]

"Petty"??

As has been alluded to, Cheney is wildly unpopular with millions of Americans. Many of these Americans are women and independants and moderates of both parties. McCain would have gained absolutely nothing by having Cheney there. In fact, Cheneys presence would have been a constant negative factor.
McCain is aware of the ins and outs of gathering support from diverse voting demographics. He made a FINE and exciting pick with Palin. There is fire in the belly of the Republican Party now.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Playboy Penguin's evidence here is LAUGHABLE!!!

No, your behavior is what is laughable. You really are embarrassing yourself. You keep making these claims of how horrible I am and when I ask you to back them up you ignore my requests and just move on to another thread and do the same thing. If you have a problem with the message then present your side. Attacking me instead of discussing the topic only shows you have nothing to add.

Everyone else that has posted here realizes the validity of this issue. They are able to understand the relationship between Cheney and McCain and the reasons for it. I am sorry it is so far beyond your scope of understanding. Maybe if Rush spoon feeds it to you on the radio tomorrow you will pretend to understand it then.

If you want to talk about ridiculous argument, how does what Cheney is doing now have anything to do with his absence from the events of the past week?

And, you never answered my question so I will ask it again...just what part of my original post do you feel is somehow biased or without basis?

 

[gc70]

just what part of my original post do you feel is somehow biased or without basis?

You need go no further than the title to find bias: "Does McCain look petty?" You might as well have asked whether McCain beats his wife often, because you posed the same type of no-win question, where any answer assumes something bad - in this case that McCain prevented Cheney from speaking.

You also personalized the question directly at McCain. Did McCain make a specific decision? Even your sources do not say so ("some of its leaders, in the McCain campaign, including the titular campaign chairman Rick Davis, did not want Cheney to speak under any circumstances"). There is a vast difference between the sentiments expressed by a large number of people in a major political party and the actions of one person. But you assume the worst and lay everything at McCain's personal doorstep in the question.

PBP, you apparently have a negative opinion about McCain, but don't expect everyone else to embrace negative assumptions, rumor, and innuendo.

 

[Playboypenguin]

You need go no further than the title to find bias: "Does McCain look petty?" You might as well have asked whether McCain beats his wife often, because you posed the same type of no-win question, where any answer assumes something bad - in this case that McCain prevented Cheney from speaking.

Your reading comprehension needs work. That question is in no way a lose/lose question like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

It can clearly be answered with "No, he is doing the right thing." The wording of the question was taken straight from the mouth of John cafferty and a republican representative on the show.

And I clearly state in the OP that I think he is being principled by not wanting to bow down to the far right and be associated with Cheney. I did not criticize McCain at all. You own narrow mindedness is blinding you from seeing what is really there. You are the one with an obvious right-wing slant who adds nothing to the discussion other than attacks and rants.

 

[Alleykat]

McCain was doing what was best for the party, ergo, the country!

 

[Playboypenguin]

Full transcripts are not available yet on the CNN website...

...but they do have partial ones up now from yesterday. Here is a clip straight from John Cafferty that was part of the discussion I watched yesterday...along with some other quotes from the shop. This is not from the actual segment I watched. It is pretty much from a later recap. The interviews with the RNC people are not available yet but should be soon.

CAFFERTY: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think John McCain looks petty by not having him there.

HAYES: ...But John McCain's campaign never wanted Dick Cheney to come.

Anyone else want to try and question whether the conversation actually took place on the show now or is one or two people being embarrassed by their baseless claims enough.

 

[nate45]

Cafferty is about as left as they come and squarely in the Obama camp.

If Cheney had of spoke, Cafferty would have had something negative to say, probably about McCains lack of judgment and not being in control of his own convention.

McCain, in my opinion, should have had Cheney speak at least on video, like the President did.

Does not letting him speak make McCain petty? Calculating is probably the better word.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Cafferty is about as left as they come and squarely in the Obama camp.

If Cheney had of spoke, Cafferty would have had something negative to say, probably about McCains lack of judgment and not being in control of his own convention.

He was not even being original. He was just repeating something a republican representative, who was a big Cheney supporter, had said earlier.

He does not seem to like McCain and he saw a potential rift between McCain and the base and I think he just wanted to keep picking at it.

 

[gc70]

Your reading comprehension needs work. That question is in no way a lose/lose question like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Sorry, but any answer to the question assumes that McCain personally made a decision to exclude Cheney. The question discounts whether 'the campaign,' the Republican party, or even Cheney made the decision. Your question rejects all of the other options, some of which you have actually presented evidence to support.

You are the one with an obvious right-wing slant who adds nothing to the discussion other than attacks and rants.

It is obviously a right-wing slant to suggest discerning the difference between John McCain, the functionairies of the McCain campaign, member of the Republican party, and Dick Cheney.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Sorry, but any answer to the question assumes that McCain personally made a decision to exclude Cheney.

That was exactly what the topic of the OP and what the people that made the statements were suggesting. It has also been made very clear by many members of McCain's campaign that they were not wanting Cheney to speak. They is very easy to find with a simple web search. So there statements were not off base at all. The question is...does the fact that Cheney is not speaking make McCain seem petty, as some stated, in light of his pretty public desire to distance himself from the current administration? It is a valid quiestion. If it being asked threatens you so badly I suggest you not read this thread and go watch O'Reilly.

So far the thread has been overwhelmingly pro-McCain.

 

[Huntergirl]

I can't find any relevence in Cheney speaking or not speaking at the convention. He is still the sitting vice president, and probably on some mission somewhere, doing what vice presidents do. No McCain isn't petty and that would be the last adjective I would apply to him. As to calculating, there is only so much time, and this year even less time in the convention to appeal to delegates and voters. Those who spoke, did a great service to McCains campaign, as one would expect.

 

[LanceOregon]

Cafferty is about as left as they come and squarely in the Obama camp.

This is the thing that Playboy Penguin simply does not get. It is the old GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT rule. All he is doing is repeating baseless attacks by people who have a grudge against McCain.

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[LanceOregon]

It has also been made very clear by many members of McCain's campaign that they were not wanting Cheney to speak. They is very easy to find with a simple web search.

Your latest statement here is totally untrue. You continue to spread baseless rumors that are not documented, and which you have repeatedly failed to provide any real evidence in this entire thread to show that they are actually true.

Besides acting in a hypocritical manner, I would also say at this point that you are pretty much engaging in a witch hunt here against McCain.

It is a very common tactic of the far left to try to get others to debate them based upon a false premise. And that is exactly the very technique that you have been using here. Your comments in this thread have been so very cliche in nature.

Do you really think that you can use such a most obvious ruse to trick members of this forum into accepting your premise without any question?? If so, you must think that others here are very gullible and naive.

.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Your latest statement here is totally untrue. You continue to spread baseless rumors that are not documented, and which you have repeatedly failed to provide any real evidence in this entire thread to show that they are actually true.

Once again you embarrass yourself by not being able to address the message so you attack the messenger.

First you claimed I made it all up and that it was never said. Now you are proven completely wrong and you have not even proven yourself man enough to admit your error. You just try to change your angle of attack.

This is the thing that Playboy Penguin simply does not get. It is the old GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT rule. All he is doing is repeating baseless attacks by people who have a grudge against McCain.

So, which is it? Am I making it up or repeating something said in the mainstream media? It seems you cannot make up your mind.

I am not simply repeating something someone said. I was taking acception to it and countering it with my own opposing opinion.

Your remarks really are starting to border on person attacks since you chose to attack me and not address the topic. pretty cowardly ones too since you will not answer PM's.

 

[gc70]

does the fact that Cheney is not speaking make McCain seem petty

Absolutely not. The fact that Cheney is not speaking says nothing about McCain's character, which the question about pettiness suggests.

I am not simply repeating something someone said. I was taking acception to it and countering it with my own opposing opinion.

Thanks for reminding me to reread the OP - it is really elegantly stated. Is McCain a petty fellow for not letting Cheney speak or is he a man of principles for not letting that scoundrel Cheney speak. Most Democratic speech writers probably dream about framing a discussion so tightly that either answer constitutes an attack on some Republican.

 

[Playboypenguin]

Thanks for reminding me to reread the OP - it is really elegantly stated. Is McCain a petty fellow for not letting Cheney speak or is he a man of principles for not letting that scoundrel Cheney speak.

Are you going to try and deny that McCain's campaign indicated that they did not want Cheney to speak on multiple occasions. Are you going to try and pretend McCain and Cheney have a pleasant relationship?

 

[gc70]

Are you going to try and deny that McCain's campaign indicated that they did not want Cheney to speak on multiple occasions. Are you going to try and pretend McCain and Cheney have a pleasant relationship?

That's a weak effort at misdirection. I have made NO suggestion that the 'McCain's campaign' relished Cheney speaking or that McCain and Cheney have a good relationship. However, neither the opinions of Cheney expressed by 'McCain's campaign' or the state of McCain's relationship with Cheney have any bearing on McCain's character, which the question about pettiness suggests.

If you can provide a verifiable quote from a presumably knowledgeable insider that McCain personally and directly nixed Cheney from speaking, then it would be appropriate to discuss whether McCain acted out of pettiness or some other motivation.

 

[LanceOregon]

The simple FACTS of this case are this:

First, both Bush and Cheney were originally scheduled to speak at the convention. Their speeches were set in stone and were going to take place in the original convention agenda.

Secondly, neither man canceled their appearance due to anything that McCain or any of his staffers said or did. Bush was FORCED to cancel his speech due to hurricane Gustav. If any politicians have played dirty in this matter, it has been the Democrats, for the way that they have vilified and demonized Bush all of these years since Katrina, virtually blaming him personally for the problems that took place.

Politically, Bush had no other option open to him, but to cancel his appearance. Some weathermen had predicted that Gustav was going to pick up energy after going through Cuba, and get back up to a level 4 Hurricane. Some even predicted that it would be at level 5 strength by the time it hit the coast. There were even some predictions that Gustav could have been worse than Katrina. Of course, being it is the weather, no one could really know for sure how bad it would be.

Now, thankfully, just the opposite happened, and Gustav weakened as it approached the coast, instead of getting stronger. But Bush was looking at the possibility of a crisis as great as Katrina was when he changed his plans, and decided to devote all of his efforts to both managing the crisis, and then getting to the region ASAP, unlike the delay he did in visiting the area after Katrina.

Now would it have been appropriate for Cheney to address the convention, when Bush wasn't going to? I don't think so. Both men are lame ducks anyway, and are pretty much retiring from politics in January. Besides, the crisis in Georgia needed attention, and diplomatic missions of that nature are usually the primary job of the vice president. And as we now know, Cheney spent yesterday in Georgia, and spent most of Wednesday traveling there. And it would have taken him quite some time to prepare for the mission too. So that is the REAL reason that Cheney did not appear, he was too busy dealing with the crisis in Georgia.

So BOTH Bush and Cheney were tied up with crucial duties this week that needed to be taken care of. Those are the FACTS of what happened this week. All of this garbage about how instead it was McCain or his staff that somehow influenced whether they spoke at the convention is pure rumor and speculation. Playboy Penguin has provided no evidence that any individual in the McCain campaign has really said any such thing as has been alleged.

As I said before, Garbage in, and Garbage out. Yet, Playboy Penguin expected us all to accept this premise, in order to discuss this. Well, I certainly don't accept it as being a fact. Not by any means.

The Democrats and their sympathizers are clearly going to do everything they can to demonize McCain in the coming 2 months. This sort of junk is just the start of what will be a very nasty personal attack campaign by Obama's surrogates on McCain.

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