Does deburring help?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

shortwave

Have tried all that you have listed one time or another and more. The one I prefer to date is the link (below.) LRH quicky twist barrel of mine shoots them well with little resistance when reloading in a fouled first shot barrel. But most of the other brands of sabot combo's marketed sure put up a fight in their reloading. Those are the sabots combo's I've been commenting about. Those others.

http://www.prbullet.com/shop/products_view.php?sSKU=0125

 

[shortwave]

^^^Gotcha!

I think.

You've tried most all pre-packaged combo sabot(bullet/sabot)) and first shot on clean bbl is loadable, second shot on fouled bbl is loadable as well, but third shot on fowled bbl is very hard to load.

Posted by: 4V50 Gary:

Otherwise, if you want easier loading, go with proven and fool proof technology -- Minie rifle. Undersized bullet that drops in easily and expands to fit the rifling. The big bullets hits out to 500 yards.

Have you tried PowerBelts bullets?

Out of five inlines, I have three that shoot/load PowerBelts very well(deer accuracy out to 150yds) with charges from 90-110grns.
Can shoot 5-6 rds. before swabbing using American Pioneer/Cleanshot powder capped with a Rem. SST 209 primer
Two don't shoot them well at all(accuracy).
But all load very easily.

Have you tried a different powder that is possibly cleaner burning? Maybe American Pioneer/Cleanshot?

What about your primer? Like powders, some are dirtier then others.

...or you may be stuck with swabbing after that second shot.

Another suggestion which you probably already do, especially on a tight bbl., is use the least amount of charge you can that still does the job.

Seems you just have a 'tight' bbl. and the above suggestions will not cure that but possibly give you at least one more shot or two before swabbing.

 

[Wild Bill Bucks]

Sure Shot,

I have 5 different BP rifles and after measuring the barrels, I have tolerances from .498 to .503 inches. no 2 of the rifles have the exact same tolerance.

My suggestion is to measure your barrel, and then call MMP and talk to their Customer Assist. Dept. They know sabots from one end to the other, and are very helpful in determining what sabot will help with your barrel.

Three of my rifles will shoot the same sabot very well, but the other two have to have completely different sabots to shoot right.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

shortwave: To clarify. I have a (traditional) 45 caliber cap lock T/C Hawken with a G/M {stainless} LRH barrel installed at times with its 1X28 twist. I shoot Homemade or Gorex black 2-FF around 75-78 on the (volume (slide) of my powder measure'r under a PR H.P. bullet. {PRs>Extreme Elite sabot & bullet combo} The PR sabot seems to reload better with a fouled barrel than all the other sabot & bullet combos I've tried. But I'm lucky to get two decent PR reloading's before having to swab that barrel. If I try for a third reloading with a fouled barrel. I end up looking for a sturdy tree to help push its (mid barrel stuck) sabot & bullet down to its ledger marked ram rod.

No I haven't tried Powerbelt's.

As far as trying Minie and maxi balls. I have tried both in that LRH 45 barrel I have. Both offered mediocre accuracy at best. (Lyman maxi cast & RCBS minie cast.) _I will say both reloaded very well in their fouled barrels. {But that's the only good impression I got from either's use.}

I don't have nor ever bought an inline rifle. Still shooting traditional {double set} cap locks and one lonely T/C 50 Cal. stone chipper. I guess "I'm just trying to make do with what rifles I have."

Wild Bill Bucks: Maybe I'll give that MMP suggestion of yours a try. Perhaps they may suggest something more appropriate in their lineup of sabot products other than the product I previously tried of theirs.

 

[shortwave]

Thanks for the clarification S.S.

You may want to give PowerBelts a try in that 1:28 bbl. to see what you think. You may just get lucky.

All five of my inlines have 1:28 bbls as well but only three of them will shoot the PowerBelts. All of my traditionals have 1:48 bbls so I'm slinging mostly PRB through them with an occasional all lead maxi or minie. They will not shoot PowerBelts at all.

You can still try AAP/Cleanshot in your traditional and see if it's a bit cleaner burnin then what you're using. I like it in traditionals as it seems to burn more cleanly then others(including Goex or T7) and have never had any ignition problems in any of them.

The website that MMP offers is very helpful as suggested. Their CS will gladly work with you in working up a sabot for your bullet or a combo, but you'll have to measure your bbl.

To sum things up, if it were me with a tight bbl. I would:
1) shoot the cleanest shooting powder/primer I could as long as it was reliable

2) I would measure my bbl. and call MMP's CS and see if they had a thinner walled sabot for my preferred bullet.

3)If they didn't I'd ask them their recommended bullet/sabot combo for my bbl size.

...and somewhere in the mix, try some PowerBelts.

Too, I hope you get a combo figured out soon cause I've been thinkin of getting a 1:28 bbl for one of my caplocks as well. Then I can just pick your brain.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I'm relatively sure my choice of powder for that LRH barrel is one of its major set backs contributing to its reloading problem. Both homemade and Gorex black are indeed fouling powders big time. I've got some Cleanshot power here along with T/7 loose and Pyrodex 2 & 3-FFF. I suppose I'll have to give them all a try again and see which one burns the cleanest._ {I know first hand all those Quick Twist barrels are better suited for Substitute Powders. No doubt about that.}_ That's the idea behind shooting Sabot verses P/Ball. {cleaner the bore. The easier it is to reload a sabot or any other Maxi or Mini choice of projectile. Plus the ability of heavier charges pushing its projectile much further distance's with accuracy} I don't know if I could/would recommend buying a new Quick Twist barrel for a side hammer rifle though. Those specialty barrels are expensive. I honestly would suggest to anyone interested in a Q/Twist barrel alone. Perhaps its wiser to invest that Barrel money into a {new/good used} complete inline rifle instead. {Easier to peddle a complete rifle. Than just a used Barrel alone.} But those who may want to try a Specialty Barrel and see for themselves. Go for it. I guarantee it will be an interesting experience for that side hammer rifle of yours. No doubt you'll have fun with one._

 

[robhof]

robhof

I picked one up for under $100 awhile back on Ebay, it's a Green Mtn 50cal. for a Thompson Hawkins, 1 in 28 and drives 44 and 45 sabots with deadly accuracy. I took my 1st B/p deer a few yrs ago with it at a measured 128yds (with laser rangefinder) and it was a bang/flop takedown.

 

[shortwave]

I been considering getting one for one of the 50 cal. hammer guns just to play with. I've got several old packages of different sabot rounds that I've bought through the years laying around. I bought them working loads up for different inlines. They are just waiting for a new m/l'er to shoot them up.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Shortwave:

From what little info came with my barrel. The use of G/M Quick Twist barrel mounted on a side hammer rifle. Its powder charge is not to exceed 120 grains according to the G/M Instructions I got with my barrel. So you don't get the opportunity to use 150 grain charges like the inlines are capable of. If someone is shooting 1X48 or 1X30 twist already and are using sabot or some other projectile {other than Patched ball} with a scope and getting good results down range. You would only notice a slight difference between your barrel and the Quick Twist near the 100 yard marker. But beyond the 100 yard marker scoped is where that 1x28 twist rate shines.__ 150.__ Maybe 200 on a dinner size paper plate holes can be seen with a cold bore/ clean barrel first shot. Of course you would have to experiment with the Quick Twist barrels need for more powder to make those long distance shots w/accuracy happen. That's to be expected.

Here in this State muzzle loaders are limited to open barrel sights or a peep. No scoping of any type allowed. So I myself don't really gain having a Quick Twist mounted on my Hawken. My old eyes and out dated prescription glass's limit me to 100 yards at best bench rest with either of the two barrels I have available for my 45 cal and their barrel sights. 1x60 G/M {Rd Ball only} & 1x28 Quick Twist G/M. It is comforting knowing I have a back up barrel to my Rd Ball barrel that will shoot as accurately as my Ball barrel and then some. Having a projectile weighing twice the weight my .445 patched Ball. When I see a hoof print as big as my hand I get a little worried about using a patch ball on a Buck that size. Thus the need to change out barrels for that scenario. "Hello Quicky twister// Another time Rd Ball'er"

 

[shortwave]

Appreciate all the very valuable info. S.S.
Thanks for posting it.

We are allowed scopes on our bp's for deer season and I have them on my inline. Just don't think I could bring myself to mount one on a caplock....and...
... before the 'flaming' starts from the gallery, that's just me personally. To each their own.

The easier loading and 'just something to play with' would be my main reasoning to do this.

Please keep us posted when you settle on a sabot/bullet combo that works better for you.

Thanks again.

 

[LIBERTY]

Let me get this straight. Some person with no skill with metals or machine tools is going to take a gun barrel that was bored and rifled on very sophisticated machinery by a skilled machinist and improve it by running some abrasive on a rag thru this finely machined barrel and improve it!!!Please give me a break.

 

[thallub]

Let me get this straight. Some person with no skill with metals or machine tools is going to take a gun barrel that was bored and rifled on very sophisticated machinery by a skilled machinist and improve it by running some abrasive on a rag thru this finely machined barrel and improve it!!!

Wow!!!!!

Some muzzleloader barrels are very rough from the factory: So much for the "skilled machinist" running "sophisticated machinery" theory. More like lack of quality control and cheap labor turning out product that is hypped through glittery advertising.

Every year i scope and sight in a few dozen muzzleloaders for hunters/shooters. Some of those guns have very rough barrels that are very difficult to load. By running that "abrasive rag" through the barrel a few hundred times the barrel loads much easier.

i find it strange that the roughest barrels are usually on expensive US made muzzleloaders by one maker. Those cheap Spanish made guns with their extruded barrels usually have perfect bores that are easy to load.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

LIBERTY: I guess your right and slip right into that column with all these other guys telling me. Lapping a barrel with an abrasive would be a foolish thing to do by this rookie. But!! {on a clean barrel w/no burrs to cut its patches with} I don't think a non-abrasive polish job could hurt? Got a new tube of Flitz here just anxious to give a try on this stainless smoke pole here. What say you?

Don't know if doing so (waxing) would help the bore any. Who knows. It may help in reloading issues. I've never tried or thought about doing it before now.


BTW: Nice to see your taking interest in this B/P column LIBERTY. Always good to see a new (name/handle) listed in these treads.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Just a short note to keep you fellows who check in occasionally in the loop.
Did get to polish my barrel with Flitz and using a wooded dowel earlier last week to accomplish the task. Spun on the slow side of my dills speed. Dowel was constantly moved up and down the barrels bore and occasionally its direction was changed as was its polishing patched at that same time. B/P cleaning patches spun on the wooden rod worked the best to polish it up. {nice to have a reversing drill for the task} Dropped a yellow colored bore light down that G/M-LRH S/S barrel & almost blinded my good eye. "Holy mackerel!!" That stainless had some shine to it. Took the 45 Hawken it to the range along with a couple other rifles last week. Shot some sabot and maxi's thru that 45 cal quick twist. Didn't think their was all that much improvement down range or in its reloading after the first shot was fired using 2-FF Groex with either projectile. I swabbed the 2-FF fouling out and let the barrel sit in the direct hot sun for a 1/2 hour or so to dry. I did noticed a change when I switched to 3-FFF Groex. Reloading got to be a whole lot better on a dirty barrel. And its down range impact grouping was about the same but there wasn't any odd anti social bullets seen left or right of its grouping. So that's a plus. {always have at least one} Would I suggest to others it was worth the effort. "I think so." An hour or so of my tinkering using a non-abrasive polish sure didn't hurt and if anything helped overall.

For stainless: Flitz.

Burch Orr suggestion: J-B non-imbedding bore cleaning compound on blue steel.

 

[BirchOrr]

Interesting

I just got home from a local BP shop. There was a guy in the store who works at a barrel factory. It is a long time a well known, been around a long time manufacturer of BP and smokeless barrels. I asked him about this de-burring issue. He laughed and said the tooling used to cut the rifling's in barrels gets used hundreds of thousands of times and not re-tooled until it's completely worn out. He also said the more worn the tooling gets, leads to inconsistencies in barrel I.D.

I guess the lesson here is to carefully inspect the inside of any barrel before purchase. The only good barrels are the first ones made after re-tooling. So much for "precision" manufacturing!

He highly recommended de-burring a new barrel. He also recommended JB. Thought you guys would find this as interesting as I did.

Birch

 

[drcook]

1/2 of my BPCR rifle barrels have been hand lapped. Badger barrels lapped the barrel blanks before they were shipped. There can be quite a difference in a lapped barrel -vs- a standard production one. However some of the better manufacturers that take pride in their product build barrels that are smooth from the beginning.

One difference that might exist between BPCR barrels and muzzle loader barrels is that BPCR barrels sometimes have a "choke" lapped into them at the muzzle.

That might not work out well with a muzzle loader though.

Lots of the folks in the BPCR world lap their own barrels. There are write ups on the techniques that you can find by using GOOGLE or you search engine of choice. The key is following the directions exactly and not trying to take shortcuts.