Does any ammo company make "original" .357 loads?

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Nightcrawler

New member
I've heard the "original" .357 load, intended for an N-frame, was something like 158gr @ 1400fps. This is a very potent loading, and would give a lot of penetration and would have a lot of energy, as well as being long ranged.

But today, all the 158grn loads are in the 1250fps range. What happened? Too many J and K framed guns out there? Do any ammo companies still produce these "potent" loads (not just for hunting)?

Just curious.
 
W

Walosi

New member
The original .357 loads predate jacketed bullets - most were not even gas checked. The ones still around when I started shooting would lead my barrels smooth inside 20 rds., and were totally awesome to shoot. The 1450 fps, 125 gr. loads which have been the basis for the .357s' "stopping power" fame are now rarer, as well, since SAAMI lowered the production pressure limits recently - and the smaller framed guns have figured inthis as well. Thinkng about one of the old Remington 158 gr. loads in a new super lightweight J frame, at something over 50,000 psi, is downright spooky.
 
B

Blue Duck357

New member
Think Walosi nailed it. It's a real shame that having untrained police complain about recoil and people demanding J-frame 357's made out of riboflavin has hurt the versatility of my favorite handgun cartridge so much :(

Ammo wise I think if you were to E-mail WESHOOT2 he might be able to fix you up though...
 
T

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Georgia changed their handgun hunting regs back in 1994, allowing handgun hunting only with cartridges that would produce 500 ft/lbs @ 100 yds. Since no factory .357 loads at the time would do that, Georgia Arms started loading a 158gr JHP at a claimed 1475 fps and called it the "Deerstopper".

Coincidentally, this loading handily resurrects the original .357 Magnum.
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Yep, WS2 can fix you up with full tilt n boogie stuff....
If you qualify.:D

Most of the leading problems with the early full strength stuff were due to lousy bullet lube. Exp loads worked fine, production early stuff leaded badly.

Sam

edit....Tamara posted while I was typing....I forgot bout Georgia Arms "Deer Stopper".
 
C

CZ_

New member
hot loads

There are still hot loads out there.

Georgia arms makes a 158 grain bullet at around 1450 fps.

Cor Bon makes a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps from 4" barrel

Cor Bon also makes a 180 grain bullet at 1250 from a 4" barrel (this matches most 158 grain bullets in speed, yet the bullet is heavier).

Its true that most of the other makers do not offer hot loads like this. The typical 125 grain bullets are not as fast as they once were. :(
 
J

Jim March

New member
"Riboflavin" :D:D:D Jeeeeezuz, dude, I almost died :).

At this rate, S&W will do a Scandium N-Frame "44 Magnum" with a small-print warning "maximum 180grain @ 1,200fps" :barf:.
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
"The original .357 loads predate jacketed bullets..."

Not true.

Winchester offered jacketed .357 Mag. bullets within a year or two of its being introduced. Remington followed soon after with similar ammo.

I believe, but am not 100% certain, that Remington's early .357 Mag. metal piercing ammo was a flat-nose truncated cone FMJ.

I've clocked original Winchester metal piercing .357 Mag. ammo out of a Model 28 at nearly 1700 fps.

This stuff wasn't just hot, it was ROBOHOT.
 
J

jmlv

New member
just for info purposes

Skeeters favorite 357 load was a Thompson gascheck bullet of 158 grains loaded in 38 special cases over 13.5 -14 grains of 2400 powder. volicity was aprox 1250fps and very accurate. It works too. Just thought I would mention it.
 
M

Marko Kloos

New member
Fifty bucks to the person who volunteers to launch a cylinder full of Georgia Arms "Deerstoppers" out of a S&W 340PD Scandium snubbie. :D

158 grains at 1475fps, for 763fpe. :eek:
 
C

caz223

New member
I'll bet that the original load in a short bareled N-frame would really 'light up' the neighborhood. Hehe. Riboflavin. :D
 
C

CZ_

New member
Fifty bucks to the person who volunteers to launch a cylinder full of Georgia Arms "Deerstoppers" out of a S&W 340PD Scandium snubbie.
Click to expand...

158 grains at 1475fps, for 763fpe.

I value my wrists, I'll pass. ;)


Even full powered 125 grain loads out of my SP 101 hurt big time. I can't imagine trying a 158 grain @ 1475 fps from an even lighter snubby! :eek:
 
R

Radicalcleric

New member
My standard .357 load is a 125 JHP at a measured 1725 FPS. The report and flash are to be experienced to be believed. I use these in my M27s and have fired them through my M13 without any problems.

A 158 at 1475 would likely kick harder as bullet weight effects recoil more than does velocity.
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
Hey Saxon,

Try a 158-gr. bullet at 1,686, which is what I recall one of those Winchester rounds putting out.

Recoil was, to put it mildly, VERY stout.
 
K

KenF

New member
Fifty bucks to the person who volunteers to launch a cylinder full of Georgia Arms "Deerstoppers" out of a S&W 340PD Scandium snubbie.
Click to expand...

From what I've been reading, it might not be possible. Pulled bullets would probably prevent the cylinder from rotating to the last one (or two or three).

I have the 342PD (.38 Special) one. Had a pulled bullet on Sellier and Bellot LRN. These are less likely with jacketed, but another thread has been discussing pulled Winchester Silvertips in the 340PD.

Ken.
 
H

Hal

New member
Two words that spell hope of returning to real .357 mag levels:

Lil'Gun.

The stuff is nothing short of fantastic. Whatever witch's brew Hodgdon is using for the stuff it's clear they're on the right track to high velocity at sane pressure levels.

158 gr slug at 1577fps and only 25,800 CUP!!!

Most other powders need high 30K to 40K CUP to get anywhere near that velocity.

For non-reloaders, Lil'Gun is the powder used in the new .17 Hornady Rim Fire. Methinks that some of the commercial loaders are using the stuff too in some of their heavy thumpers.
 
W

WESHOOT2

New member
BETTER THAN ORIGINAL

Who the hell is still measuring pressure?

Screw SAAMI hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha!
 
H

Hal

New member
Lyman and Hodgdon.
I took those figures right off of Hodgdon's site and looked through my Lyman's 47th edition,,,yep,,sure enough,,CUP.
 
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