do they search/metal detectors when going on a passenger train?

[Monsterman]

Without commerce

I fail to see how any action can be taken. That's the key thing, they aren't allowed to do anything if it isn't commerce. The commerce clause is being abused.

 

[nobody_special]

The commerce clause is being abused.

Yes, but that's just business as usual...

 

[HKuser]

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped

So my C&R FFL exempts me, cool. And what's all this about delivery, if you possess it during the length of the trip, how is it being delivered? Also, what this about packages and containers, is my holster a container? I am too apathetic to log onto Westlaw to research it though.

 

[NavyLT]

So, here is a question then. You say:

Furthermore, the law does not allow the carrier to simply "allow weapons on board" by accepting a form and returning the weapon to the owner, because of 18 USC 922(f)

Quote:
(f) (1) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of the provisions of this chapter.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm.

Does an airline do that when the bag containing your firearm that you checked in with them get a signature from you when that bag pops down on the carousel with all the other bags?

 

[NavyLT]

And in the case that you quote, Eddie Bishop Jones clearly broke the law because he did not surrender his firearms to the operator of the common carrier NOR did he provide written notice of the firearms shipment or transportation. He did not do either one.

I am not saying you can just carry your weapon onto a train and travel from state x to state y. You cannot do that, by federal law, it is illegal. All I am saying is that if AMTRAK or Greyhound wanted to be able to allow passengers to transport their firearms with them, they could do so, legally, just like airlines do. The fact that you cannot transport your firearm with you on AMTRAK or Greyhound is not Federal Law, it is company policy.

If AYZ Airline company can allow you to transport your firearm, using legal methods to do so, then so could AMTRAK or Greyhound, there is NO FEDERAL LAW prohibiting it, their company policy is what prevents them from transporting firearms just like AYZ Airline does.

Federal Law allows you to check your firearm with the operator of the carrier. It is AMTRAK and Greyhound company policy that they do not accept that.

 

[NavyLT]

From the NRA website ... I would trust the lawyers that the NRA employees more than a post to a forum such as this.

I too would trust a competent lawyer more than an internet forum. HOWEVER, even the BATF posted information on their firearms FAQ section is incorrect, they have stated it is incorrect and we all know it is incorrect. You only have to provide notification, by federal law, of an interstate shipment IF that package is going to a non-licensee. Any other notification to the carrier, if the package is going to a licensee, is a requirement of that company's policy and not a federal law requirement:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm (<-- This part is not true if going to a licensed dealer/collector) and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

 

[HKuser]

Reading these statutes, these sound like shipping common carriers, not pertaining to travelling with firearms. I can see how shipping, or checking as baggage, would apply here, but which sections apply to possession on one's person?

 

[divemedic]

You missed the part of 922(e) that reads:

except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter.

 

[toybox99615]

be prepared

the bottom line is simply this: if you are on a bus, train or any other public transportation and they are giving you a screening and your are carrying a firearm you will be arguing your cause in front of some judge. You can cry 2nd amendment or anything else you would like to scream but you'll not be continuing on your journey without some interruptions. Now the solution is to know in advance how to best deal with the issue not how to scream louder than anyone else in the station.

There has been some good advice posted in this thread on where you can find the particulars for each of these public conveyances. I'd check them out before I went to board and find out I was about to be unconvinced by some delay I did not want.

 

[HKuser]

they are giving you a screening

If they're giving you a screening then most likely they will tell you what you can't bring on (if they know, those "demonstration" bus checkpoints were staffed with TSA who had no idea).

 

[divemedic]

Under the category of things I didn't know, in researching this, I found out that Amtrak has its own police force:

The Amtrak Police Department has 342 sworn officers with most of its security force located in the Northeast Corridor where Amtrak runs and operates the tracks and infrastructure. In 1992, it received the distinction of being the first national law enforcement agency accredited by the prestigious Commission on Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies (CALEA) and has been reaccredited in 1997 and 2002. The Department has oversight responsibility for the planning, assessment and evaluation of Amtrak’s passenger, critical infrastructure, and station security, emergency response plans and operations.

 

[HKuser]

I found out that Amtrak has its own police force:

As does Conrail, under the federal railways acts, most railroads have or had police forces.

 

[LeadFistExpress]

You must hand over the weapon to the carrier

NavyLT,

Correct, it is Amtrak company policy to not allow firearms at all. The law only states that you must surrender the weapon to the conductor, not that they cannot transport it. Yet, Amtrak forbids weapons entirely, and if you bring one on board you will be violating the law. I do not know for a fact about other states, but I assume they are similar, but in Colorado you cannot carry a firearm into the premises or any private business, which Amtrak is, if they post that firearms are prohibited. That would be breaking the law in Colorado, and that could be grounds to revoke my permit.

For anyone with thousands of dollars to blow on legal defense, go ahead and try it. I for one would not even think about it.

 

[NavyLT]

Quote:
I found out that Amtrak has its own police force:

As does Conrail, under the federal railways acts, most railroads have or had police forces.

And, according to Federal law, all US Post Office employees have authority as LEO's on Post Office property.

 

[NavyLT]

The law only states that you must surrender the weapon to the conductor

I'm sorry but I still hold to the fact that the law says that you MAY surrender the weapon to the conductor. The other option is to transport the weapon with WRITTEN notification to the carrier. You can point to Eddie Bishop Jones case all you want to, and he was guilty, because he neither provided WRITTEN notice to the carrier, nor surrendered the weapon.

It would be very simple for AMTRAK to operate the same way airlines do, my one and only point in this whole entire discussion is that it is not against Federal Law to transport a firearm by train or bus, there are legal ways to do so. Carrying the weapon onboard, with no notification to the carrier, is NOT a legal way to do so. But there are legal ways to do so, it is just AMTRAK and Greyhound forbid it by company policy.