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do they search/metal detectors when going on a passenger train?
- Thread starter cajun47
- Start date
Planning on crossing any state lines?
Does not matter. AMTRAK policy is no guns. Period. Not on the person, not concealed, not in carry on baggage, not in checked luggage, I do not green eggs and ham, Sam I am.
Or are we talking local commuter trains?
I got wanded and patted down before I got on a Greyhound bus at Penn Station, I barely had time to stash my lock-blade in my luggage. Of course that was in November of 2001, they may have relaxed a little since then.
I remember the good old days when you could smoke and whittle on the bus.
I remember the good old days when you could smoke and whittle on the bus.
thrgunsmith
New member
its the law?
imao amtrak is more concerned about drugs, policy is one thing but I have never seen any LE on all the trips I have taken.
I took my guns with me on greyhound, don't ask don't tell was basically what I was told when I inquired over the phone.
Really? can you please link to the appropriate cite please?That is not just amtrak policy: it is the law. No weapons on any interstate carrier
imao amtrak is more concerned about drugs, policy is one thing but I have never seen any LE on all the trips I have taken.
I took my guns with me on greyhound, don't ask don't tell was basically what I was told when I inquired over the phone.
18 USC 922
Just because they don't search you doesn't mean that they can't.
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
Just because they don't search you doesn't mean that they can't.
Here is a link to EDDIE BISHOP JONES V. UNITED STATES, a Supreme Court case from 1990. This is what the court had to say:
Here, the government's proof of petitioner's unlawful delivery of firearms to an interstate carrier for interstate transportation consisted of evidence that he purchased the firearms in Virginia, that he boarded the bus in Richmond without notifying Greyhound that he was carrying weapons, and that the weapons crossed state lines into the District of Columbia.
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
That law says MAY. It does not say shall or must. What that sentence does is establish an excpetion to the previous requirement. Basically if you are traveling with your firearm aboard the same means of conveance as the firearm, you don't have to declare in writing to the carrier. This is actually what ALLOWS you to "ship" your firearm interstate via airlines - you are surrendering your firearm to the operator, without written notice to them, and traveling as a passenger by the same means of conveance as the "shipment".
This specific law does NOT prohibit traveling by contract or common carrier with your firearm on your person. You won't find a Federal law that prohibits travel by rail with your firearm on your person.
nobody_special
New member
I did read an article a few months ago which said DHS would implement more rigorous screening for Amtrak... including metal detectors etc.
You are misreading the law. The law prohibits transporting firearms by common carrier:
and then the law gives you an exception, if you are a passenger:
I know it says MAY, but if you do not deliver the firearm to the pilot, captain or conductor, you are violating the law. In other words, in order to not violate the first part of the law, a passenger may deliver the weapon to the aforementioned parties.
also, from the NRA guide:
Also, refer to the legal case I cited in my last post. Eddie Bishop Jones v. United States. One of the charges in this case specifically dealt with this situation.
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped
and then the law gives you an exception, if you are a passenger:
except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter.
I know it says MAY, but if you do not deliver the firearm to the pilot, captain or conductor, you are violating the law. In other words, in order to not violate the first part of the law, a passenger may deliver the weapon to the aforementioned parties.
also, from the NRA guide:
Any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce must deliver the unloaded firearm into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor, or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip. Check with each carrier before your trip to avoid problems.
Also, refer to the legal case I cited in my last post. Eddie Bishop Jones v. United States. One of the charges in this case specifically dealt with this situation.
That is not just amtrak policy: it is the law. No weapons on any interstate carrier.
This statement, however, is still incorrect. There are two ways to transport a firearm interstate by common or contract carrier if it is not being shipped to an FFL. You can provide written notice, or you can place the firearm or ammunition in the custody of the operator. There is no law BANNING firearms from common or contract carriers. There are only laws that spell out the legal method of transporting the firearm by common carrier.
The BANNING of firearms from a particular carrier is company policy, not Federal Law.
I did read an article a few months ago which said DHS would implement more rigorous screening for Amtrak... including metal detectors etc.
Yeah, but how long is Amtrak going to exist with Diesel fuel over $4.00 a gallon?
thrgunsmith
New member
divemedic, you seem to only address shipping
it still looks like to me that it is merely policy, not law
You have to let the conductor or someone like that hold your unloaded gun on your trip.
(like you do when flying)
Which seems like to me to be a very onerous law, that probably gets ignored in America.
Places like D.C and NY/NJ hardly qualify as a free country like NV/NM/TX/AK/AZ
does
it still looks like to me that it is merely policy, not law
You have to let the conductor or someone like that hold your unloaded gun on your trip.
(like you do when flying)
Which seems like to me to be a very onerous law, that probably gets ignored in America.
Places like D.C and NY/NJ hardly qualify as a free country like NV/NM/TX/AK/AZ
does
it still looks like to me that it is merely policy, not law You have to let the conductor or someone like that hold your unloaded gun on your trip. Which seems like to me to be a very onerous law, that probably gets ignored in America. Places like D.C and NY/NJ hardly qualify as a free country like NV/NM/TX/AK/AZ does
I think that law DOES apply to passengers carrying weapons as well, as long as INTERSTATE transportation is occurring. Possession of weapons on a carrier engaged in transportation within one state is governed only by state and local laws: for instance, Washington State Ferries are perfectly legal to carry on, with no notification. So rail travel occurring within one state would not be covered by the Federal law.
However, as stated earlier, that law does not BAN interstate transportation of firearms by any specific type or common/contract carrier, it merely specifies the legal means by which interstate transportation may occur.
Let's say, for instance, AMTRAK wanted to allow passengers to carry their weapons on board. They could do so simply with a form that the passenger would be required to fill out to give witten notice that the weapon was being carried.
It would be interesting if DHS did start monitoring AMTRAK passengers. If they found a weapon, and that person had a ticket for INTERSTATE travel, then I suppose they could arrest the person under the Federal law. But, if that person only had a ticket for travel within one state, then I think they would only be able to arrest the person for violating state or local law, and in some states would only be able to ask the offender to leave under threat of tresspassing.
You cannot be in possession of a weapon on any interstate carrier. Read the law again. The law specifically says that you MUST DELIVER THE FIREARM into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the DURATION OF THE TRIP.
There is no provision for the carrier to return the weapon to you, and the law is exactly the same for airplanes as it is for trains. The only reason why there aren't metal detectors is that you aren't going to hijack a train to go to Cuba.
Again, read the case I posted above. Eddie Bishop Jones was convicted for bringing 3 firearms - a .38 caliber revolver and two 9 mm
handguns with 36-round mags - onto a Greyhound bus and taking that bus from Virginia to Washington, DC.
Furthermore, the law does not allow the carrier to simply "allow weapons on board" by accepting a form and returning the weapon to the owner, because of 18 USC 922(f)
the theory that the weapon is not involved in interstate commerce if the passenger does not possess an interstate ticket is proven incorrect by 18 USC 922(q)(1), which reads:
Carry on a bus or train at your own peril. If you don't believe me, ask the TSA.
There is no provision for the carrier to return the weapon to you, and the law is exactly the same for airplanes as it is for trains. The only reason why there aren't metal detectors is that you aren't going to hijack a train to go to Cuba.
Again, read the case I posted above. Eddie Bishop Jones was convicted for bringing 3 firearms - a .38 caliber revolver and two 9 mm
handguns with 36-round mags - onto a Greyhound bus and taking that bus from Virginia to Washington, DC.
Furthermore, the law does not allow the carrier to simply "allow weapons on board" by accepting a form and returning the weapon to the owner, because of 18 USC 922(f)
(f) (1) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of the provisions of this chapter.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm.
the theory that the weapon is not involved in interstate commerce if the passenger does not possess an interstate ticket is proven incorrect by 18 USC 922(q)(1), which reads:
(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
Carry on a bus or train at your own peril. If you don't believe me, ask the TSA.
LeadFistExpress
New member
I would not do it.
From the NRA website (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59)
I would trust the lawyers that the NRA employees more than a post to a forum such as this. Besides, I know that at least in Colorado it is considered trespassing to possess a weapon on the property of any business that specifically prohibits it, as long as they state that weapons are banned, even if you are allowed to carry open or concealed in the state. My gym prohibits guns, and I assume it is because they do not want people leaving them in the lockers while working out. If I carry there, even though I have a permit, I am breaking the law and I am fairly certain that it could be grounds to revoke my permit.
From the NRA website (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59)
Any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce must deliver the unloaded firearm into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor, or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip. Check with each carrier before your trip to avoid problems.
Bus companies generally refuse to transport firearms. Amtrak specifically prohibits the transport or possession of firearms and ammunition both on board and in checked baggage. Other passenger rail companies may also restrict transport or possession; always check with your carrier first.
I would trust the lawyers that the NRA employees more than a post to a forum such as this. Besides, I know that at least in Colorado it is considered trespassing to possess a weapon on the property of any business that specifically prohibits it, as long as they state that weapons are banned, even if you are allowed to carry open or concealed in the state. My gym prohibits guns, and I assume it is because they do not want people leaving them in the lockers while working out. If I carry there, even though I have a permit, I am breaking the law and I am fairly certain that it could be grounds to revoke my permit.