Define Loaded Gun

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dyl

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Well hey, not every thread needs to be about ground-breaking issues. Based on the response it looks like we all learned something.

I don't know why I never caught on to loading mags at home first. Maybe because I don't have enough mags. But if I had more, it sure would beat trying to do it standing at a range with rounds rolling around on a tiny bench with no lip.
 
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BigJimP

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Cartridges in the mag - and mag in the gun...makes it a loaded gun in my view...and by most state's definitions.

A round in the chamber - changes the "condition" of readiness of the loaded gun ...but its loaded either way. This is an excerpt from Coopers "condition of carry readiness"...

Cooper favored the Colt M1911 pistol and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:
Condition 4: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.
Condition 3: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 2: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition 1: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition 0: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
 
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DanTSX

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I think that in a gun store, which is an environment where the 4 rules are somewhat ignored because the assumption is that everything is unloaded for demonstration purposes, that keeping loaded magazines away from firearms is pretty logical since everyone fingergroping every gun and manipulating it's action constantly is going to increase your chances of an accident.

The semantics are not important. Keeping a ready ammunition source away from demo guns, that may be mistaken for an empty mag, is reasonable and shouldn't raise any eyebrows even amongst the strongest pro2A guys.

If you think loaded mags next to display guns Is A-ok, open your own gunshop that welcomes this behavior and use whatever semantics you wish.
 
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TunnelRat

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I tend to think of it as if I was in a situation and someone passed me a gun and said, "It's loaded", I would assume there was a round in the chamber. I would check myself of course but that would be my initial assumption. I think what you stumbled on is the fact that "loaded" itself may be too vague a term for certainty when working with others who may interpret it differently. That's likely why that sign exists.
 
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Skans

Active member
Without 1st looking at the other responses:

Loaded semi-auto gun would have at least one cartridge in an inserted magazine OR in the chamber.

Loaded Revolver would have at least one cartridge in one of the cylinder chambers.

I don't subscribe to the saying "ALL GUNS ARE LOADED". The truth is, they aren't. Also, not having a round in the chamber of a semi-auto doesn't mean the gun isn't loaded, it means that there isn't a live round in the chamber.

Any ambiguity as to whether a semi-auto is "loaded" or not is due to the fact that you are applying 17th century terminology to a type of firearm that didn't come into its own until the 20th century. It's simply not a precise enough term when applied to semi-autos.

There are at least 2, if not 4 conditions that any given semi-auto can be in:
1. Magazine Loaded (and inserted), but no round chambered.
2. Magazine Loaded and round chambered, hammer/striker back, safety off
3. Magazine Loaded, round chambered, hammer/striker back, safety on.
4. Magazine loaded round chambered, hammer/or striker down.
 
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lifesizepotato

New member
Firmly believe that loaded = round in the chamber. A semi-auto with a full magazine but no round in the chamber is functionally identical to a semi-auto with ammo located in the next county over until someone consciously racks the slide or teleporting cartridge technology is invented. Pull that trigger all you want, nothing is going to happen.

I understand the point of the "all guns are always loaded" commandment, but in reality, a gun is not actually loaded if there is no round in the chamber.

As such, a revolver is loaded if all chambers have a round in them, because there is no escaping the fact that there is a round chambered in line with the bore and it could fire.
 
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Dragline45

New member
A loaded gun to me is one with the round in the chamber. A gun with no round chambered and a full mag will function the same as a gun with no round chambered and no mag, as in it wont fire.
 
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aarondhgraham

New member
I think Skans said it,,,

I think Skans said it,,,
We can argue semantics all day,,,
But there isn't a court in the land who wouldn't agree.

Heck, in some places a gun with ammo or a loaded magazine in close proximity will get you charged and often convicted.

If I had a cocked revolver with all but one cylinder charged,,,
But that empty cylinder was under the cocked hammer,,,
No one would legitimately argue it was unloaded.

Israeli cops carry semi-auto's with the chamber empty,,,
No one would claim they carry unloaded pistols.

My point is we can argue/discuss the definition all day long,,,
But the only time it will really matter is in a court of law.

I can't imagine a court would ever rule,,,
That a gun with a cartridge in it is unloaded.

Aarond

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Sequins

New member
Some posters are dangerously semantic. If I was handed an old model blackhawk and told "don't worry, it's not loaded" because it was only carrying 5 and the hammer was down on an empty chamber I would be furious. That is absurd to say.

A gun with cartridges in it is a loaded gun you guys.

In fact, I'll bet even the deniers have handed someone a gun at the range and said "when you're ready to fire just pull back the slide, it's already loaded". That's what I would say if I handed my gun to a friend, what would YOU say if you handed a chamber empty magazine inserted gun to someone? Would you say "here you go man, it's not loaded"?
 
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Limnophile

New member
I was taught decades ago that the only safe way to hand a firearm to someone else was with that firearm unloaded and the action kpen so that you and the recipient can obviously tell that the firearm is incapable of firing in the manner in which it will be received. This rule is always violated in gun shops, which bugs the heck out of me. The shop employee checks the gun before handing it over, but closes the action before doing so. I assume they do this deliberately to avoid rubes from slamming the action shut on an empty chamber, but they could at least show the recipient that the gun is unloaded before handing it over, or, better yet, hand it over with the action open and azk the recipient to close the action gently.

I'm unaware of any jurisdiction that regards an empty chamber with a loaded magazine constitutes an unloaded condition. TSA regs allow a loaded magazine to be carried in your locked gun case, but the magazine must not be inside the gun. I believe the federal law that allows us to legally transport our firearms across state lines regardless of various state laws (something interstate truckers are probably most familiar with, requires that no loaded magazine be in the firearm. This is the lowest common denominator:

18 US Code § 926A

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Click to expand...
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
A loaded magazine in a firearm equals a loaded firearm.

How many of you remember Lee Paige, the DEA "undercover" agent who (literally as well as figuratively) shot himself in the foot with his "Glock fowtay"? He had just handed the gun to someone else in the room, who confirmed that there was not a round in the chamber. If that meant the gun wasn't loaded ... how did he manage to shoot himself with it?
 
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OldMarksman

Staff
Posted by Sequins:
A gun with cartridges in it is a loaded gun you guys.
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ABSOLUTELY! Or powder and ball, or powder and shot. How could anyone ever reasonably argue otherwise?

Well, here's one way. Some firearms have been made with storage provisions in the stock or grip that can store ammunition. But that ammunition cannot be made to fire simply by manipulating the action. One example is the FP-45 Liberator. I think one could contend that one of those with cartridges stored in the grip was not "loaded", but unless one added that the firearm did contain ammunition, one could likely be accused of making a misleading statement.
 
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Bob Wright

New member
A general application has always been that a firearm is loaded when cartridges are in the magazine. The magazine may be tubular, such as the Winchester, or internal such as a Mauser. In police parlance the statement is usually made, "Loaded, with a round in the chamber." This as opposed to simply "Loaded."

A loaded magazine may be full of cartridges, yet not inserted into the arm.

In each case of being loaded, the idea is that any modern arm, rifle, shotgun, or handgun, may be instantly brought into firing action with the magazine loaded.

This pertains to repeating arms, and does not apply to single shot arms with a reserve supply of cartridges contained on the rifle. A double rifle having cartridge recesses in the stock is not considered loaded if the chambers are empty but cartridges are in the butt.

Bob Wright

Bob Wright
 
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