Defective Hornady brass?

[Farmland]

Not sure that I can add except to say that I have split some Remington cases like this in my 45-70. I know I loaded the rounds correctly, I take my time loading black powder, making sure to use a drop tube and on the 45-70 I use a card between the bullet & powder while compressing the load per the instructions.

I used published black powder loads for the round and match to the rile a Springfield trap door. However I will still split a case every now and then, doesn't really matter which manufacture it was just a Remington recently.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Did Hornady have anything interesting to say, or are they waiting for the brass before commenting?

 

[ClemBert]

Nope. Nothing said other than they'll do an analysis and let me know if this casing complies with their standards.

 

[DaleA]

-they'll do an analysis and let me know if this casing complies with their standards.

I guess I don't mind the lawyer speak AT FIRST because they have not really had a chance to check the case. I hope they come across with a satisfying explanation later and I hope they make it right for you personally if the fault is on their end.

Like I said before I'm a fan of Hornady based on the good luck I've had with their products in the past.

 

[noylj]

1) I don't know where you got the idea that black powder doesn't develop high pressure
2) All brands of brass can crack just like your did. It's the nature of the beast.
3) Interested in what Hornady says, but you are definitely outside of the loads they would recommend.

 

[ClemBert]

1) I don't know where you got the idea that black powder doesn't develop high pressure

I never said that black powder can't (doesn't) develop high pressure. It is well published that black powder can develop pressures of 100,000 PSI under controlled conditions. "High pressure" is a relative term in this conversation. There aren't documented pressure numbers for .45 BPM. My estimation for relative pressure (that being one having higher pressure than another) is based on the limited library of reloading data books I have access to. Since there isn't published data for .45 BPM I can only compare and contrast similar cartridges listed in both the smokeless and black powder reloading handbooks.

45-70 Government and 40-65 Winchester are a couple of examples.

45-70 Government
39,700 C.U.P with 32 grains SR-4759 smokeless powder - 500 gr bullet
12,100 C.U.P. with 60 grains FFg black powder - 500 gr bullet
10,000 C.U.P. with 70 grains FFg black powder - 292 gr bullet

70 grains of black powder in 45-70 is near a full load for that cartridge.

40-65 Winchester
17,600 C.U.P. with 19 grains SR-4759 smokeless powder - 400 gr bullet
12,800 C.U.P. with 55 grains FFg black powder - 400 gr bullet
13,500 C.U.P. with 50 grains FFg black powder - 400 gr bullet

460 S&W Magnum
50,100 C.U.P. with 35 grains H110 smokeless powder - 325 gr bullet
51,700 C.U.P. with 39 grains IMR-4227 smokeless powder - 325 gr bullet

45 BPM (using 460 S&W Magnum brass casing)
????? C.U.P. with 50 grains FFFg* black powder - 150 gr bullet

* data available suggest a potential increase in pressure by 10-15% for FFFg vs FFg black powder

It would appear, from my data, that one could expect to see pressure at 55,000+ C.U.P. for certain loads of 460 S&W Magnum. This implies that new brass "should" be able to deal with these pressure levels. Since there isn't published data for the wildcat cartridge .45 BPM it is anyone's guess at this point as to the pressure with 50 grains FFFg black powder. The data above suggests it is below that of some configurations of the 460 S&W Magnum loaded with smokeless powder. I'm not convinced that 50 grains of FFFg black powder and a 150 grain bullet will exceed the pressure of a 460 S&W Magnum (or even come close).

2) All brands of brass can crack just like your did. It's the nature of the beast.

It could very well be that "stuff happens". I haven't had anyone chime in yet though to inform me that it's not all that uncommon for new brass to fracture. If it is common for new brass to fracture then I'd like to hear from those with this experience.

3) Interested in what Hornady says, but you are definitely outside of the loads they would recommend.

Hornady isn't going to have any recommendation on the .45 BPM since it is a wildcat cartridge. Will keep ya informed on what Hornady finds, if anything.

 

[ClemBert]

Hornady was very quick to do the analysis of the failed casing. This is what was reported to me.

"There may have been a slight flaw in the case wall these are a very high pressure round and any long striking mark in the inner case wall would cause these ruptures."

"Once in a while when running the coolant on the punch stems when drawing the cases if a piece of brass gets between the cup and the punch during the draw it will strike the inner wall of the case therefore weakening the case."

Of the brass I've already fired Hornady doesn't think I'll see a failure from any of them. They said they'll send a few replacement pieces of brass my way when they get more in stock.

It would appear that "stuff happens" sometimes when you run millions upon millions of these cases through the production process. Every once and awhile I suppose you get one that is less than ideal.

So, for now, case closed.

 

[DaleA]

Thanks for posting their reply - I was a little surpised they don't have extra brass on hand. I guess .460 brass is more of an odd duck than I thought.

Also thanks for posting the video too. I liked seeing your version of a 'Ransom Rest' in action but that should probably be a topic for another thread.

 

[Doodlebugger45]

It sounds like a pretty honest answer they gave. I don't know why, but yep, sometimes it will just happen. So far, I have never had a case split like that in my .454 or .480 Ruger or .44 mag brass. But I have a can of mixed brass for my .357 loads that has maybe 500 pieces in it of mixed brands. I use that can of brass as basically my plinking stuff, nothing very extreme. I have reloaded those maybe 9 times total. I have not seen any evidence at all of the mouths starting to split in the vast majority of them. But on about the 3rd firing, I had 2 of them completely split down the side like the picture here. One was Federal, the other Remington. All mild loads, gentle crimps, etc. There was just some inherent flaw present.

 

[ClemBert]

I'm very impressed with Hornady's customer service. Great communication all the way. Received an email from them with a warranty service number when they received the defective brass casing in the mail. Quick email responses back when the problem was identified. Even got an email with a USPS tracking number when they sent me some free brass replacements. Received 10 new pieces of 460 S&W brass casings today to replace the one I had sent them. Excellent service! Thanks Hornady!

 

[ClemBert]

Daggum....a big brown UPS truck just stopped by and handed me a box that contained another 50 pieces of unprimed 460 S&W brass from Hornady. Wow...is that customer satisfaction or what? I only bought a box of 50 pieces and Hornady has more than doubled my 460 S&W brass.

 

[bigautomatic]

When I first bought my 460 four years ago, I also purchased 100 rounds of the Hornady 200gr factory ammo. First because it was relatively inexpensive back then, second, because I wouldn't have to wait to have brass to reload. I ordered 200 from Starline in short order, assuming that the Hornady would only last a few loadings. So far, I have loaded the Hornady five times (at near full house pressures) and just saw the first split. I am starting to see the telltale ring at the web on a couple of others. The Starline is notably thicker, and have not experienced a split after seven or eight loadings. The Hornady is not bad but the Starline is better, at least so far.

 

[edward5759]

It happens.
Had it happen.
I would just keep go on.

Ed 5759