Cylinder movement

You still may want to check the registration of the timing and the uniformity of the chamber sizes. For the former, you are checking to see if the chambers are coaxial withe the bore when the hammer is cocked. When I bought a Ruger Redhawk in the 1980s, I was lucky that the shop had three of them in stock. One failed the thumb drag test. With the other two, I put a strip of white paper between the cylinder and recoil shield, and got enough light on it that I could see from the muzzle that one of the two remaining guns had its chambers center in the bore perfectly, while the other gun's chambers overshot the bore a little. I bought the former, put a Burris pistol scope on it, and proceeded to put six rounds of cheap American Eagle 240 grain SPs into under an inch at 50 yards off bags. However five holes overlapped and just one at five o'clock opened the group to that final size. I repeated the shooting with close to the same result, especially the one hole away from the rest at about five o''clock. Later, with a small hole gauge, I found a spread of chamber mouth sizes of about 0.002". The tightest of these was the one throwing the fliers. I've never bought a reamer to fix it. I just don't use that chamber.

Anyway, the point is that good bore and chamber registration is helpful. Uniform chamber mouths are helpful. Both seem to matter more with lead bullets. And while I have no clue how much difference these factors might make in the Judge, at least it gives you something to look for, and maybe ideas for how to participate in one of my favorite pastimes, trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

The other comments have me curious about the Judge's rifling and bore dimensions. I remember Elmer Keith commenting in one of his books that a lot of nineteenth century 45 Colts had rifling that was just a couple of thousandths deep, like a 22. He said some of the old time gunfighters liked the fact the bullets would often tumble coming out of them (think: gun with shallow rifling never fully cleaned of accumulated lead fouling), as a sideways bullet would stop a man faster than a straight-through hole did. Of course, they were talking short ranges, such as across a card table. Longer ranges typically involved a lot of misses back then, and tumbling would exacerbate that.
 

tangolima

New member
The alignment between the bore and the chambers is called ranging. To do the ranging test, you need a ranging rod for the caliber. Basically all chambers need to pass. Some manufacturers may allow one or two chambers marginally pass.

To correct ranging errors... You don't want to know. Gunsmiths don't want to do repairs while the customer is watching, especially this one.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/using-range-rods-to-check-barrel-cylinder-alignment/

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

cdoc42

New member
I just checked Midway USA, Brownells, and Pacific Tool Co for prices. No luck on Midway but the multi-tool kit is $200 at Brownells and a single .45 Cal Pacific tool is almost $100.
Looks like I'll skip that experiment.

"Gunsmiths don't want to do repairs while the customer is watching, especially this one."
That sounds like a colonoscopy.
 

tangolima

New member
Worse.

If you know the land diameter of your bore, you can make your own ranging rod with pin gauge. Replacement pins are available for about $20. Land diameter - 0.003" is about right. Epoxy a long and smaller rod to the pin, and you are in business.

I made this one for .38 spl and .357.

Now you have venture into the dark domain of revolver smithing. Turn around while you still can.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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Ricklin

New member
Cabela's

Cabela's sold me a broken wallhanger. I might suggest they employ more knowledgeable folks to evaluate guns since it cost me the princely sum of 19 dollars and 99 cents. They deemed it broken.
The "wallhanger"? A Colt New Navy double action, sold at Monkey Wards in Chicago 1899. Around 85-90%, however the cylinder will rotate out of battery when at rest. Colt did add a retracting cylinder lock bolt as the military rejected the New Navy due to the out of battery issue when holstered. Colt sold the model for several years with and without the locking bolt. Mine has the frame cut for the bolt, but no notches in the cylinder. The old girl is quite loose at rest, even after 120 years she is still tight and locked up with the trigger fully depressed. I'd not ever steal a gun at a low price from someone's widow, however I will be glad to go do it again tomorrow at Cabela's should they be that foolish, they should know better, the books to tell them what they had were there on the gun library shelves, but one must read them. EVen a blind squirrel gets an acorn every now and again.
 

TruthTellers

New member
Didn't take long for the Judge bashing to begin. I wonder why I don't see the same sort of bashing on the Governor, which I assume has the same accuracy with .45 as the Judge does? Must be the logo on the side that gives it Hunter Biden like immunity from prosecution...

The accuracy you can expect from the Judge is roughly 2 inches at 10 yards with the best shooting ammo. I don't bother with hollow points in the Judge, I don't think any are fast enough to get expansion outside of that Lehigh Defense stuff that is like $3/rd and expands to an inch and a half. I've wanted to try Inceptor .45 Colt ammo, but can't find it and the bullets are tough to get too. I assume it works just as well as all their other calibers, but they never did reply to me when I asked them about using that ammo in a .410/.45 revolver.

An unfortunately common theme with the industry: putting in no effort to respond to customer inquiries.

I've done a lot of accuracy testing with my Public Defender with handloads, tried full wadcutters, hollow base bullets, different weights... the best results I got were with 250gr Berry's in, I believe, .45 Schofield with 700x and the result was under 1.5 inches at 10 yards, but the velocity is about 600 fps.

The lack of a rear sight doesn't help things, I've never been a fan of groove rear sights.

I concluded that with the Judge you'll never get great accuracy, you can get decent accuracy with the best ammo and I don't think .45 Colt is the best ammo to use in the Judge, the .45 Schofield may lack something in power, but it's not much and it makes up for it in accuracy.
 

44 AMP

Staff
the .45 Schofield may lack something in power, but it's not much and it makes up for it in accuracy.

In the gun you used, and with the ammo you used, you got good results shooting .45 Schofield, but I don't see that as any kind of ringing endorsement of the round overall. The next guy with the next gun and next box of Schofield ammo might get exactly the opposite results you did.

the Schofield is shorter than the .45 Colt, so, if the accuracy problem is due to long bullet jump, I don't see a shorter round solving that.

However since the Schofield is usually loaded with different bullet than the Colt, (a 230gr vs 250gr) the Schofield being more accurate, in your gun MIGHT just be your gun's barrel shooting one bullet better than another.
 

TruthTellers

New member
In the gun you used, and with the ammo you used, you got good results shooting .45 Schofield, but I don't see that as any kind of ringing endorsement of the round overall. The next guy with the next gun and next box of Schofield ammo might get exactly the opposite results you did.

the Schofield is shorter than the .45 Colt, so, if the accuracy problem is due to long bullet jump, I don't see a shorter round solving that.

However since the Schofield is usually loaded with different bullet than the Colt, (a 230gr vs 250gr) the Schofield being more accurate, in your gun MIGHT just be your gun's barrel shooting one bullet better than another.
Every bullet I tried in the Colt in my Judge I also tried in the Schofield, it was the 250gr bullet that shot best in both with the Schofield slightly better than Colt. I did get good results with 200gr bullets in the Schofield, not as accurate on paper, but easy to shoot on steel.

The bullet jump being as long as it is in the Judge the shorter Schofield case has no affect.

I have shot my Schofield reloads in several .45 revolvers I own and I have found the Schofield to be more accurate than .45 Colt in all of them. I attribute this the powder charge burning more efficiently and repeatably due to decreased case volume and less air in the case. To achieve the same level of powder/air ratio in the case in .45 Colt I'd have to load more powder, which increases the pressure, which means I can't shoot it in weaker revolvers.

So, my non Ruger .45's get the Schofield and the .45 Colt gets loaded with above standard pressure loads, makes it easy to identify which ammo is hot and which is not.

I encourage all who reload who have .45 Colt chambered revolvers to try .45 Schofield. Factory ammo there's no control over and the price and availability of it is just terrible.
 

44 AMP

Staff
I attribute this the powder charge burning more efficiently and repeatably due to decreased case volume and less air in the case. To achieve the same level of powder/air ratio in the case in .45 Colt I'd have to load more powder, which increases the pressure, which means I can't shoot it in weaker revolvers.

Changing the air space in the case is possible without increasing the pressure. Simply use a different powder.

What "weaker revolvers"?? Meaning, weaker, compared to what??

The weakest .45 revolvers I can think of are the top breaks, and there are very few of those in .45 Colt. I did have personal experience with one of those, made by Armi San Marcos. Beautifully finished, functionally, a piece of CRAP that wouldn't work properly with factory loads. Don't get one of those! (for anything other than a wall hanger!!!)
 

TruthTellers

New member
Changing the air space in the case is possible without increasing the pressure. Simply use a different powder.

What "weaker revolvers"?? Meaning, weaker, compared to what??

The weakest .45 revolvers I can think of are the top breaks, and there are very few of those in .45 Colt. I did have personal experience with one of those, made by Armi San Marcos. Beautifully finished, functionally, a piece of CRAP that wouldn't work properly with factory loads. Don't get one of those! (for anything other than a wall hanger!!!)
Other powders that I don't have can't be used and I have powders I like a lot in .45, such as 700x and Unique.

Weaker revolvers as in not Ruger Blackhawks, Redhawks, and BFRs that can handle 1100 fps with a 300gr projectile.
 
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