Cut Shells and their uses

[T_PRO_Z]

Hello All,

I have recently been plinking with 10ga cut shells and want a more practical use for them as they are very "cool". I can hit a 12 inch target at 85 yards within a 10 inch group of 5. I even cut down a few trees with them. I started doing this yesterday after my papaw told me a story about deer hunting with one and bagging a nice doe.

I have been using 3 1\2 high brass BB shot for the cutshells I have been shooting.

the gun is a cheap NEF single shot 10ga with a perminant full choke barrel that I got for 200$ like new.

I have ran a few through the mossy 500 12 ga and .410 caliber shotguns, all with great success.

I also have another question. could this hurt the gun in any way?

 

[Kvon2]

I think the only practical use other than fun would be a scenario (defense or hunting) in which you need to bring something relatively large down and only have a bird shot round to use.

I don't think it'll damage the gun but I believe it can make cleaning a pain in the butt at times.

 

[T_PRO_Z]

That is the truth. it is a pain and a half to clean.

I shot a 10ga cutshell at a 1\2" piece of steel and it put a 3cm bulge in the back before showering me with lead lol I was far enough back to where it did not hurt but it was annoying

 

[HiBC]

Of course,you can respond that you have been doing it,and nothing blew up.And,its true some old timers did this when they had birdshot and need a deer.
I'm not arguing that.

Have you ever heard its a bad idea to shoot a 3 or 3 1/2 in shell in a 2 3/4 in chamber?Was it explained why?

Its a bad idea because the chamber is cut large enough for the OUTSIDE of the shell.The bore of the barrel is cut large enough for the INSIDE of the shell

A 3 in shell in a 2 3/4 in chamber has a problem in that the case mouth/folded crimp roll out into the forcing cone,choking the bore down.This dramatically increases pressure.

So far,so good? You have heard that before? OK.

Now apply the same principle to what you are doing.You are not just unfurling a case mouth that is a choking things down a bit,you are forcing the whole case body to swedge down to bore diameter.

And also,if you get away with it using lead shot,which can deform,you may get unfortunate results if you try steel shot.It does not squeeze down so well.

I think Lyman maybe makes a mold to cast slugs that look a bit like a huge air rifle pellet.These are designed to be handloaded into a standard modern plastic shot cup.
Those might be a better path.

 

[T_PRO_Z]

I have shot steel and lead. no problems and the shotgun is fine.

it is chambered for 31/2 inch shells so I am not worried about it at all.

and boy was it fun.

 

[Jim Watson]

In poor rural areas and during the Great Depression, cut shells had actual applications.

Deer were scarcer in those days, not justifying the price of a rifle or maybe not even some "punkin ball" or slug loads. A cut shell gave you a chance at the shot of a lifetime at little cost.

And since they are still technically shot shells, you would be less likely to get in trouble with the game warden as you might if you had a rifle or some rifled slugs along out of season.

 

[HiBC]

Feel free to do whatever makes you happy.I WAS minding my own business until you asked if it could harm the gun.You asked.
As I suggested in my first line,I had a hunch I was wasting my time.

 

[T_PRO_Z]

from the information that you have given me, my gun will not be harmed. and thank you for that information.

I am sorry if I offended you in any way, but there is no reason to be bitter on a public forum. I hope you have a wonderful and blessed day.

if the excess pressure is involved, wouldn't that just push the casing into the sides of the barrel and tear open the end releasing the shot and leaving the case behind either in the barrel or several feet in front of the barrel?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

It doesn't quite work that way.

Whether you want to believe it or not, you risk blowing the end of the barrel of your gun off-at the very least. Maybe it won't, but there is a good chance that it will.

If/when it does happen, maybe the split will be toward the end of the barrel, or maybe it will be where your left hand is.

There are a whole lot of reasons NOT to do it, and very few reasons (if any) to do it.

It's your gun, your eyes, and your hand. Take the chances if you want.

 

[T_PRO_Z]

ok, I will not do this too my gun anymore. I just thought that this was an interesting topic and was not expecting to get the bitter responses that I have gotten.

I know what the next thing said will be though. someone will say " we are not telling you what to do with YOUR gun, we are just telling you that you shouldn't for obvious safety reasons". and I respect that, and I was asking a legitimate question hoping to spark a full conversation of people and what they have done with cutshells and also why it is a bad idea to use them, without the bitter responses.

As I said before to the other bitter responder, I am sorry that I offended you and I hope that you have a good day. God Bless!

 

[FITASC]

from the information that you have given me, my gun will not be harmed.

Incorrect; read what he wrote again and what Bill reiterates below your last post

 

[T_PRO_Z]

Have you ever heard its a bad idea to shoot a 3 or 3 1/2 in shell in a 2 3/4 in chamber?Was it explained why?

Its a bad idea because the chamber is cut large enough for the OUTSIDE of the shell.The bore of the barrel is cut large enough for the INSIDE of the shell

A 3 in shell in a 2 3/4 in chamber has a problem in that the case mouth/folded crimp roll out into the forcing cone,choking the bore down.This dramatically increases pressure.

So far,so good? You have heard that before? OK.

FITASC,

while he is correct in his statements, I did not see any harm firing the loads since I was not firing a 3 1\2 through a 2 3\4 bore. sure, it may increase the pressure, but I have read articles during the time that I have posted this saying it will not harm you gun and they have shot plenty through theirs.

 

[FITASC]

Nothing to do with extra long ammo in the gun. Has to do with shooting the cut shell and that extra thickness of the plastic hull trying to pass through a choke constriction that elevates the pressure beyond safe levels.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

There was nothing bitter in anyone's remarks. We are telling you that it's a dangerous practice, and why.
Now that you know this, it would be prudent to heed the warnings.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Every time you shoot a cut shell out of your 10 gauge the part of the cut shell is resized .065 as it go's the bore.

That drives pressures sky high.

In time that gun will shoot loose and will be off face.

 

[HiBC]

T-Pro-z
No bitterness,no heartburn.Never was.

 

[g.willikers]

Whether or not a cut shell can be harmful to barrels is probably like most other things.
The more it's done the poorer the odds.
The old timers probably used them sparingly for getting food and not for range fun.
If things ever get that tough again, cut shells could still prove useful as a survival tool.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

What is the thickness of a hull? I know different ones have different thickness, but some average baseline.

How much does the tightest choke constrict the barrel?

Yes, chokes are normally found far away from the chamber, and the pressure may or may not be lower at the point of the choke, but there are some short barrels out there where it probably chokes at pressure higher than at the chamber.

I agree it is not a good idea to shoot these regularly. Unless an emergency, I would avoid shooting them in a budget single shot either. We should avoid going down that discussion path again though.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

It's not just the thickness of the shell and choke.
The shell is being forced down the bore-which is very undersized for the shell, THEN you get to the choke, constricting it even more.

 

[HiBC]

And here is another way this could become a newspaper bad PR for firearms article.
Some of the "Old Timers" also cut the tips off of 30-06 ball ammo to make "expanding bullets". Problem is,those jackets were open base.And they were not bonded cores.So the jackets became a copper tube open at both ends.Sometimes the core would blow out,leaving the jacket stuck in the bore.
The next round tended to be a different sort of "expanding bullet".It would be a barrel expanding bullet.
This practice of cutting shells can certainly work the same way.
The crimp can open,blowing the shot and cup through,leaving the hull in the bore.
IF the experimenter is really lucky,it only results in a goose egg bulge in the barrel.
I thought I was being educational by describing the problem with shooting shells longer than the chamber,and the case mouth unfurling into the forcing cone.I was overly optimistic that the lesson would be understood,as evidenced by the reply"But I'm not shooting shells long for the chamber"

Some folks learn easy,some folks learn hard.
I did my best to answer the question,and I had a premonition how it might go.
Some folks say "I don't know" and ask a question.An honest answer is given in good faith.Then the person who began with "I don't know" argues.
I don't have a lot of energy for that.Apparently that means I'm bitter.
Sometimes,if someone says "Hold my beer,and watch this!!"
About all you can do is get your vid recorder ready.
I hope it all works out without injury.