Creative Answers to "May I search your ..."

[brouhaha]

When I was 16, my friend and I were pulled over for making a LEGAL U-turn at a light. There was no sign that said "No U-Turn", and everybody does it here to get into a small shopping center. When the cop approaches the car, he claims that when we made the U-Turn, the light we turned back under was red, therefore we ran a red light. Of course, my smart mouth, I say something like "But officer, when you make a left hand turn, you pass beneath a red light at the end of the turn...ar left hand turns illegal too?" He tells me to shut up, then asks to search the car. We tell him he can, just not the trunk. He even went so far as to pull up the rear bench seat. Now that guy was an ass...

 

[buzz_knox]

How about this one:

Q: May I search your car?

A: Oh, sure. It'll start with my car. Then, you'll want to search my belongings, then my person. Then, it'll be a strip search, then a body cavity search. We'll end up having going out, having dinner, getting involved. And finally, after I've given you the best years of my life, you'll leave me for some doe-eyed, idiot who thinks you're just the greatest instead of the fat, middle-aged, balding moron that you really are!

So, no! YOU CAN'T SEARCH MY CAR, YOU TWO-TIMING PRICK!

 

[jimpeel]

When you get stopped you may do the following:

Roll down the window about 3 inches, hand over your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance and roll the window back up and turn your back on him. There is no requirement that you speak to him at all -- even a single syllable.

Of course, this will assure you a citation and you will be under immediate suspicion of everything everywhere. They will likely bring on the dogs. Their problem is that the Supreme Court has already ruled several years ago that a person may not be held suspect for the mere excercise of their Constitutional rights. This includes speaking to them -- read the first line of your Miranda card -- allowing a search, or anything else that is your right not to do for them.

If you do decide to speak to them and be cooperative and they ask to search your car simply answer "No." If they question your reluctance simply say "I watch "C.O.P.S." and "Stories of the Highway Patrtol" on a regular basis and I've seen what you guys do to people's cars when you search them. When you find nothing, you leave them to clean up the mess you made so no, you may not search my car."

 

[MellowMikey]

Just say NO to consent searches.
DARE to keep em out of your car.
I knew those phrases would come in handy some day.

Mellow

 

[TheBluesMan]

Jeff White -

Thank you very much for your considered response. It's good to hear an honest lawman's viewpoint of a very serious subject. I can't say that I disagree with any of the guidelines under which you work ('cept maybe the K-9). Like you said, "It's not easy, it's a fine line to walk."

Thanks, too, for understanding that most of these responses (including mine above) are all in jest.

buzz_knox - You crack me up!

 

[JimDiver]

"Sure. If you find my pet python (showing empty pillow case with rope) be careful. He has not eaten in weeks and is a bit testy. Oh. and mind the fangs please. He needs them to catch the tasty birds."

 

[CITADELGRAD87]

Look, just say "No."

If he asks why not, you do not need to give ANY reason, or engage in any conversation with him.

 

[RH]

I'm confused. If he says I'm free to go, THEN asks if he can search, can I simply drive away? I mean, I'm free to go, right?

 

[Jeff White]

RH,

You are correct. After telling the driver he is free to go, he doesn't have to talk to you. He can just say "ok, I'll drive carefully", or "goodbye officer" and the stop is over.

The courts here have held that by asking for consent to search before you have completed the other enforcement action is coercive and that someone may comply in the mistaken thought that the search was part of the traffic violation and that he/she HAD to consent in order to be permitted to go on their way. So it's approached as a "By the way" type conversation.

Jeff

 

[David Scott]

Thanks for the profesisonal opinion, Jeff. I too believe that a few over-enthusiastic LEOs, probably caught up in the "war on drugs" frenzy, make it tough for the good cops -- the majority. There are cops in my family, so I know where you're coming from.

On the rare occasions I have been stopped by LEOs (maybe twice in the last 15 years), I have had no problem with them, because I know the few simple rules for such encounters:

1. Be civil. These guys are humans too, and they deal with enough crapheads per day. Common politeness will make things better all round.

2. Whether you think you did what you're being cited for or not, don't argue with the officer. The proper place to debate the offense is in court. The chance of changing his mind on the spot is close to zero anyway.

3. Know what behavior cops consider a warning sign, and don't do that stuff. If you're stopped, and you start digging under the car seat as the officer approaches, for his own safety he will react as if you're going for a weapon. The same goes for plunging your hands into your pockets, acting nervous and jerky, or making jokes (like some of the more humorous replies in this thread).

4. Do not lie. If the officer catches you in one lie, he will not believe anything else you say, and life will get tougher. An experienced cop develops a finely tuned BS detector.

5. Do not try to evade. The chances of you getting away from an organization with radios, helicopters and so on is pathetic. You'll only get them upset.

6. Know your rights, and if you find you must insist on them, do so calmly. Invoking Rodney King, F. Lee Bailey and the ACLU in a loud voice is not necessary.

7. Don't ever try the line "my father/brother/friend is a very important person, if you give me a ticket they'll have your badge!" My brother in law, a cop for 25 years, says he used to get this all the time and it always made him look for more stuff to write up. The "I pay your salary" routine doesn't work either.

You can do all that, and still decline to have your car searched. 999 times out of 1,000 that will be the end of it. The 1,000th time, when your rights get violated, you can file such a lawsuit that you'll be able to retire.

 

[DCR]

Nicely put, Mr. Scott.

 

[griz]

Jeff, if I were the driver in your scenario, and I had nothing illegal in my car, I would still consider it coercion when given the choice of search now and get to leave or wait for the dog to get here. I agree you are doing it right and you need to do it, I just don’t want you to think the general public views a search as benignly as you seem to think they do.

 

[Jeff White]

Griz,
Normally if a K9 was working, and the stop warranted it, he'd already be on the scene before we ever got to the part about consent to search. The rules in Illinois are about to change again though. The Illinois 5th Circuit has ruled that walking a K9 around the exterior of a vehicle without being able to articulate "reasonable suspicion" is a violation of the Illinois State Constitution. This ruling was made about a month ago and holds Illinois police officers to a higher standard then the U.S. Supreme Court which has ruled that walking a K9 around the exterior of a vehicle does not violate the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The state is appealing this ruling and at this time it's unclear if the higher courts will uphold this decision. Stay tuned. The only time I've personally seen a K9 used just for a fishing expedition is the sweeps that they do at the high schools. In traffic stop situations, I've never personally seen a K9 used without being able to articulate "reasonable suspicion".

To answer your question, the officer would certainly have to be able to prove at least "reasonable suspicion" before he could justify detaining you at the end of a vehicle stop long enough for a K9 to arrive.

This is a moot point now, for at least in Illinois you can't just walk a K9 around the exterior of a vehicle as part of your routine anymore. I'll dig the court citations out and post them if anyone is interested.

Jeff

 

[griz]

Thanks Jeff for the response and the correction. I pictured it as being a while before the K9 officer got there. Admittedly a half hour isn’t forever but you would hate to be that late to pick up your kid. I’m surprised the court made that decision. I am under the impression that vast majority of those searches found something that proved the suspicion was justified.
For what it’s worth, the only time I was asked about a search was on a military base (where I work) as part of random searches at the gate. I believe you may refuse these searches but then they pull your on-base driving privileges for some period of time.
Thanks again and thank you for doing what I’m sure is an under appreciated job.

 

[RickD]

Officer: "Do you have any guns, bazookas, or grenades in the car?"

Citizen: "You pulled me over to sell me a gun?!!? Call you supervisor, I want to file a complaint.!"

Officer: "No. I asked you if you had any guns."

Citizen: "Officer, I no longer trust you. Call your supervisor or let me go."

If the K9 "hits" you have probable cause to search and you may continue with the enforcement
action.

I can't wait until the Fascists in Blue use dogs to search of the illegal guns of peaceful citizens.

If you use a dog on a traffic stop without reasonable articulable suspicion and especially without probable cause, I assume you are violating the rights of the driver, until proven otherwise.

Rick

 

[ahenry]

Originally posted by Jeff

If the K9 "hits" you have probable cause to search and you may continue with the enforcement
action.

If you use a dog on a traffic stop without reasonable articulable suspicion and especially without probable cause, I assume you are violating the rights of the driver, until proven otherwise.

RickD lets at least quote our own members correctly....

Originally posted by Jeff

If the answer is yes they would mind, you then have two choices, thank the subject and leave, or if you do have strong suspicions and no probable cause, you can detain the subject for a few minutes while a K9 is brought in to walk around the vehicle. If the K9 "hits" you have probable cause to search and you may continue with the enforcement action. If not you must let the subject go. You can't detain them very long while waiting for the K9 either.

Followed in a later post by,

To answer your question, the officer would certainly have to be able to prove at least "reasonable suspicion" before he could justify detaining you at the end of a vehicle stop long enough for a K9 to arrive.

No need to go around trying to piss friends off...

 

[David Scott]

All of the above leads me to ask what constitutes "reasonable suspicion". Leave out the obvious stuff, like blood dripping from the trunk or a stack of baggies full of white powder on the back seat. Where is the borderline?

Does a bumper sticker from NORML (National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws) give reasonable suspicion? How about "Keep Honking, I'm Reloading"?

How "furtive" does behavior have to be? If I keep shifting my feet, I might just need to find a rest room. If I keep looking at my watch, it could be because "Star Trek" comes on in 10 minutes.

I have been told by my cop brother in law that a broken out rear window is often a sign that the car was stolen. True? If the driver's license does not match the name and/or address on the registration, how much does that count?

 

[stuckatwork]

The fun stuff aside, I would hazard a guess and say that 95% of all LEO's are good upstanding people and do not want to mess with anyone needlessly. First, it is just plain rude and second, it just makes extra work for them.

Now for that other 5%...

When facing a LEO, YOU do not know what that guy or gal has on their mind. Do not, and I mean DO NOT smart mouth them. If you have been pulled over for speeding, traffic violation, wolf pack DUI check, or for being ugly in a pretty zone, be polite, do not get jumpy or give them any reason to think you are up to something. And keep your hands in plain sight! Once they have a suspicion that you are to something, they have probably cuase and you are in for a hard time. Remember, there are more of them than you, they have more weapons (well maybe) than you and even if you win in court because of a bad bust, you just spent all the kids college fund getting yourself out of trouble.

I have been asked to have my car searched by the Highway Patrol and Border Patrol on several occassions. In all situations, I told them respectfully that the answer was "no". Most of the time all I got was a song and dance, then let go. The Border Patrol guy pi**ed me off and I said go get warrant. His response was, "Okay, stay put." A senior officer interviened, and let me go, but that took over a half an hour. Another time with the state cop, when he asked to search my vehicle and was told no, he said that he could call in for a warrant, I told him to go ahead. He came back to my car, I handed him my cellphone and said, "My lawyer wants a couple words with you." I could literally see the expression on his face change from stren "obey me" to an "Oh, shi* look". I was told to go right after that. The lawyer asked three questions:

1. Is my client under arrest?

ans. no

2. Is he under suspicion for committing a crime?

ans. no

3. You agree to let my client go his way, and I won't ask for your badge number. Agree?

ans. yes.

The real point is that if you are legally armed there is nothing (or should be) to worry about. I havebeen stopped while carrying. I tell the cop upfront even though in AZ you don't have to. They ask were it is, can I see you CCW, and so forth. Neverhave I been pulled out of the car relieved of my pistol,hand cuffed while the cop "checks it out". In fact they are gratful that you are beingupfront with them and letting themknow you mean them no harm. Believe me, it is a much preferable to having the cop see a hog leg strapped to your hip while reaching over for your insurance card. Talk about getting a cop jumpy.

Getting in the cops face will only make things worse. Is the cop violating your 4th Amendment rights by asking to search your car/truck/house? Nope. He can ask, you can say no. If you are dragged out of your car after saying no, and the car and or your body is searched or it is done under duress, Yep! Big time. Then it is time to get a lawyer and go for the brass ring.

just my thoughts.

 

[Jeff White]

RickD,
Actually, according to a 1983 U.S. Supreme Court decision (United States v. Place, 462 U.S. 696, 707, 77 L. Ed. 2d 110, 103 S. Ct. 2637, 2644-45 (1983)) the court decided that a canine sniff on an exterior search, in a public place did not constitute a Fourth Amendment violation.

However in Illinois the courts have ruled that the State Constitution can provide more protection the the U.S. Constitution. This is a brief synopsis of that case:

People v. Cox, No. 5-99-0238, defendent Cox was charged with unlawfull possession of cannabis. A police officer, McCormick, testified that he stopped the defendent's vehicle because it did not have a rear registration light. He did not smell the odor of cannabis. A deputy with a drug dog was summoned and arrived approx. 15 minutes later. McCormick testified that it normally takes 10-15 minutes to write a ticket. The dog was exposed to the exterior of the vehicle and alerted. A search of the vehicle resulted in the discovery of cannabis residue and seeds on the floorboard. The defendent was asked to empty the pockets and further cannabis was found. The only issue on appeal was whether officers needed at least reasonable suspicion to conduct a walk around of the defendent's vehicle by a drug sniffing dog while defendent was being lawfully detained at a routine traffic stop. The length of time required for the dog to arrive was not an issue.

The Illinois case (under appeal by the state) said:

Article I, section 6, of the 1970 Illinois Constitution states, "The people shall have the right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers [,] and other possesions against unreasonable searches, seizures, invasions of privacy[,] or interceptions of communications by eavesdropping devices or other means." Ill. Const. 1970, art. I, &6. The fourth amendment sets the minimum rights a person shall receive against unreasonable government search and seizure. The Illinois Constitution can give people more protection. The United States Supreme Court has ruled in Place that a canine sniff does not constitute a search under the fourth amendment. Place, 462 U.S. at 707, 77 L. Ed. 2d 110, 103 S. Ct. at 2644-45. However, a canine sniff may still constitute a search under section 6 of article I of the 1970 Illinois Constitution.

The court then concluded that the Illinois Constitution requires an officer to have a reasonable suspicion in order to expose a narcotics detection dog to the exterior of a vehicle during a traffic stop.

The above is extracted from the law supplement we get monthly at the PD.

I wonder if the Illinois decision (if it stands) would be binding on federal officers operating within the state?

If you are asked for permission to search your vehicle, just say no. If the officer searches anyway, beat him in court. A court case will in most instances, change the way business is conducted.

As I said in my earlier post, not many officers want to trample peoples rights or lose in court a lot and then open themselves and their agency to civil suits. It's easier to do things the right way the first time.

Jeff

 

[M1911]

David Scott said:

"I have been told by my cop brother in law that a broken out rear window is often a sign that the car was stolen. True?"

When I lived in the PRK, my car was broken into twice. Both times by breaking the small right rear quarter window, then reaching in to unlock the door.

Broken glass on the car will definitely get the officer's attention. And if you've popped the ignition, he'll be even more interested. And if you then can't produce the registration and/or the registration is not in your name and you don't remember the name and address on the registration -- well I'd sure call that probably cause, wouldn't you?

M1911