Creating a new cartridge for fans of the 1911

[TunnelRat]

And how do you fit all of that around the primer?

I swear to god that if the internet had existed in the 19th century, Samuel Colt, Horace Smith, Daniel Wesson and John Moses Browning would have destroyed their computer screens by now.

I apologize for not recognizing the next Samuel Colt or John Browning.

 

[Moon Falcon]

I apologize for not recognizing the next Samuel Colt or John Browning.

Do you recognize Gaston Glock?

And sometimes you have the superior product i.e. the AR-18 vs the AR-15 but the market is not ready and people still prefer to hunt deer with bolt-action rifles.

 

[TunnelRat]

Do you recognize Gaston Glock?

And sometimes you have the superior product i.e. the AR-18 vs the AR-15 but the market is not ready and people still prefer to hunt deer with bolt-action rifles.

I knew a guy by that name who made polymer curtain rods, but I doubt anything ever came of him.

 

[JimCunn]

"I know my market and a cartridge named Destroyer or Punisher would sell like hotcakes".

I might buy a .475 Big Boy.
No way would I touch those other two.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Maybe 460 Rowland flopped because the cost of the pistol was too high?

And 460 Rowland uses a .451 bullet so it was only 451 Detonics Magnum by another name.

I like how you say that as if your suggestion isn't .475 bullet redone again, LOL. You are acting like you would have something new, when it isn't, not in bullet or concept.

No, the .460 pistols were not particularly expensive, not like your .475 would be super cheap, right?

It's something called market research maybe you have heard of it?

Based on the previous market, there isn't much and it has largely sucked for this sort of idea. That should be plainly obvious.

With that is mind, what is it about your concept that is going to be so different, revolutionary, unique, etc. to make people want to buy a rehashed big bore 1911?

Do you recognize Gaston Glock?

So now you are Gaston Glock of the 1911s? Let that sink in...

 

[FrankenMauser]

tl;dr: You'll sell a couple dozen barrels, and a thousand or so pieces of brass (if you have Starline or Quality Cartridge run 25k pieces for a custom head stamp).
But I don't see a big market; and you'll never recoup the expense for the brass, unless you can convince some place like Graf's to buy it.

--

I shoot .480 Ruger and .475 Tremor. Both use "handgun" bullets, with the Tremor being able to also use rifle bullets and custom bullets.

The lightest commercially available bullet that is generally obtainable is the Speer 275 gr Gold Dot. They're designed for terminal impact velocities higher than .45 Auto can achieve at the muzzle in a 1911. Terminal performance will be sub-par.
The Barnes 275 gr XPB is a similar story. Designed for higher impact velocities. --And the nose is a bit longer, if I recall correctly. So it may just be too long for the job, while also not feeding (because giant bucket mouth).

The majority of available bullets are 325-500 gr, with long noses; and very few of them would feed worth a crap in a 1911 (if they would even fit).


However, Hawk does offer a custom "auto nose profile" for .475" bullets, for .475 Wildey Magnum. You could probably work with Hawk to cook up something appropriate for the application.
Hawk Custom Bullets

More than likely, your COAL would need to be close to .45 Auto's 1.275" in order to feed and function correctly. In addition, the 'max' COAL may be necessary due to the nose length of the few 'possibly usable' .475" handgun bullets.

Where you would find a magazine and frame that could feed such a thing, I have no idea except for the .50 GI parts from Guncrafters.

 

[Moon Falcon]

I like how you say that as if your suggestion isn't .475 bullet redone again, LOL. You are acting like you would have something new, when it isn't, not in bullet or concept.

No, the .460 pistols were not particularly expensive, not like your .475 would be super cheap, right?

It could be if it was made from recycled rail road track... would you like that?

Based on the previous market, there isn't much and it has largely sucked for this sort of idea. That should be plainly obvious.

With that is mind, what is it about your concept that is going to be so different, revolutionary, unique, etc. to make people want to buy a rehashed big bore 1911?

So now you are Gaston Glock of the 1911s? Let that sink in...

I'm more like the Liberace of 1911's.

 

[Moon Falcon]

tl;dr: You'll sell a couple dozen barrels, and a thousand or so pieces of brass (if you have Starline or Quality Cartridge run 25k pieces for a custom head stamp).
But I don't see a big market; and you'll never recoup the expense for the brass, unless you can convince some place like Graf's to buy it.

--

I shoot .480 Ruger and .475 Tremor. Both use "handgun" bullets, with the Tremor being able to also use rifle bullets and custom bullets.

The lightest commercially available bullet that is generally obtainable is the Speer 275 gr Gold Dot. They're designed for terminal impact velocities higher than .45 Auto can achieve at the muzzle in a 1911. Terminal performance will be sub-par.
The Barnes 275 gr XPB is a similar story. Designed for higher impact velocities. --And the nose is a bit longer, if I recall correctly. So it may just be too long for the job, while also not feeding (because giant bucket mouth).

The majority of available bullets are 325-500 gr, with long noses; and very few of them would feed worth a crap in a 1911 (if they would even fit).


However, Hawk does offer a custom "auto nose profile" for .475" bullets, for .475 Wildey Magnum. You could probably work with Hawk to cook up something appropriate for the application.
Hawk Custom Bullets

More than likely, your COAL would need to be close to .45 Auto's 1.275" in order to feed and function correctly. In addition, the 'max' COAL may be necessary due to the nose length of the few 'possibly usable' .475" handgun bullets.

Where you would find a magazine and frame that could feed such a thing, I have no idea except for the .50 GI parts from Guncrafters.

We don't need another 475 Wildey Magnum with it's heavy recoil.

What people said that they wanted was an improved 45 ACP but people rejected first the 451 Detonics Magnum and then the 45 Super so people doesn't really know what they want... we must tell them what they want and that is capitalism.

 

[44caliberkid]

If your market is 19 year old boys who do 30 round mag dumps with an AR at 15 yards, yeah, they might buy that.

 

[TunnelRat]

so people doesn't really know what they want... we must tell them what they want and that is capitalism.

To be commercially viable it's not enough to tell them, you have to convince them.

 

[Moon Falcon]

If your market is 19 year old boys who do 30 round mag dumps with an AR at 15 yards, yeah, they might buy that.

Well, 49 is the new 19... didn't you know?

 

[Moon Falcon]

To be commercially viable it's not enough to tell them, you have to convince them.

I know how to market guns towards forty year old teenagers.

 

[TunnelRat]

I know how to market guns towards forty year old teenagers.

Well then you shouldn't be concerned about the lukewarm reception here. Best of luck.

 

[Moon Falcon]

Well then you shouldn't be concerned about the lukewarm reception here. Best of luck.

My market is out shooting guns and having fun... not spending their whole days on this forum.

 

[Jim Watson]

I guess these little Gedankenexperimenten are fun but they seldom yield anything.

There was a lively discussion of the potential of a .44 Auto but it came to naught because of the difficulty of getting a .429" 1911 barrel made.

The only off the wall basement inventor project I can think of offhand is the .357 Ring Of Fire, discussed here about five years ago. The designer actually modified a gun to shoot his round and even got some gunzine coverage.

 

[Moon Falcon]

I guess these little Gedankenexperimenten are fun but they seldom yield anything.

There was a lively discussion of the potential of a .44 Auto but it came to naught because of the difficulty of getting a .429" 1911 barrel made.

The only off the wall basement inventor project I can think of offhand is the .357 Ring Of Fire, discussed here about five years ago. The designer actually modified a gun to shoot his round and even got some gunzine coverage.

What became of it?

 

[stagpanther]

I swear to god that if the internet had existed in the 19th century, Samuel Colt, Horace Smith, Daniel Wesson and John Moses Browning would have destroyed their computer screens by now.

"Sudden LCD Impact" it does have a ring to it.

Your best bet is to successfully develop and make the thing and then come back here and show it off.

.357 Ring Of Fire

I was just thinking about him as this thread brought memories back--wonder what ever happened to that.

 

[TunnelRat]

My market is out shooting guns and having fun... not spending their whole days on this forum.

But I thought you were here for market research? Are you researching new markets then? I am not sure insulting prospective markets is a good way to gain ground.

 

[Jim Watson]

The .357 Ring of Fire first showed up at
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585771&highlight=ring+of+fire
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586990&highlight=ring+of+fire
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598361&highlight=ring+of+fire

As you can see, we were doubtful of his claims.
But he got some ink
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/9/30/review-357-ring-of-fire/

And offered to sell.
https://ringoffiremfg.com

Dave might well be approachable on a .475 Auto development.

 

[TunnelRat]

I remember that one. Even in my admittedly shorter time than some others, I seem to recall a few such threads. My innate cynicism aside, just because other new cartridges haven't gained ground in the past doesn't mean they can't/won't in the future.