Cooper's color codes
- Thread starter pax
- Start date
This shows that neither you nor jmortimer are alert enough to be in condition yellow and are now unworthy of Colonel Jeff Cooper's color code.You must now turn in your Jeff Cooper Fan Club cards and decoder rings.
Seriously though, we should look back at the lives of people like Jeff Cooper, Jim Cirillo, Charles Askins, Jack Weaver, Ray Chapman, etc., etc. with admiration. We should admire them as men. We should bear in mind men are not perfect, and principles are not absolute.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Provide a verifiable citation. When I quoted Colonel Cooper I provided a verifiable citation. If you're going to do so you also need to do the rest of us the courtesy of doing the same and allowing us to validated the accuracy of your claim.jmortimer said:
In addition, you've thus far demonstrated that you apparently don't understand Colonel Cooper or the Color Code very well, so I'm not going to accept your claims about something Col. Cooper supposedly said unless you do validate your claim.
No. See the discussion on John Schaefer's website and to which I linked in post 3 and the quote from Jeff Cooper's Commentaries I set out in post 10.Onward Allusion said:
On 26 May 2002 I was with Jeff Cooper in his home at Gunsite in Arizona. I was there by his invitation to watch the Monaco Grand Prix.Onward Allusion said:
We sat in his den watching the race and chatting. After the race, we repaired to the living room to continue chatting and to enjoy some refreshment provided by Mrs. Cooper. Both Col. Cooper and I were armed, and I dare say in Condition Yellow the entire time, but it really had no perceptible effect on either of us.
People who have not had a full grounding in the Cooper/Gunsite Color Code consistently erroneously believe that each level represents some step-up in alertness and associated tension. But it really doesn't. Let's look again at what Colonel Cooper wrote (Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 13, pg.4, emphasis added)
Cooper was a Marine, as almost all of us know. His concept of color codes is not so different from the separate but related concepts of "Threat Level" and "Weapons Status."
Threat Level is based on regional intelligence assessments, while Weapons Status is based on ROE and perceived readiness requirement - which is influenced by, but not the same as, Threat Level.
The higher the Weapons Status, the faster the theoretical response capability to threat, but the higher the potential for ND / AD and fratricide. (Particularly with automated systems.)
Cooper basically amalgamated the concepts, and codified for individual vs unit use.
Threat Level is based on regional intelligence assessments, while Weapons Status is based on ROE and perceived readiness requirement - which is influenced by, but not the same as, Threat Level.
The higher the Weapons Status, the faster the theoretical response capability to threat, but the higher the potential for ND / AD and fratricide. (Particularly with automated systems.)
Cooper basically amalgamated the concepts, and codified for individual vs unit use.
I can see how it could also apply, in a sense, to the level of danger you perceive. After all, that affects how you are armed, I assume. Cooper, I believe, described how some assume away danger when there was good reason not to do so. This doesn't apply just to situations in which you may be attacked by another person but by a dangerous animal. If I remember correctly, he mentioned being on a hunting trip in Africa. He along had his rifle with him while they sat around the campfire (or some such occasion) when something big with teeth and claws showed up. But it is human nature to be "extra careful" if you think there is a need to be.
I don't remember any older writers ever mentioning such a color coding system. That doesn't mean none existed, only that writers didn't mention it. However, not many writers of my father's generation and earlier ever wrote of self defense like Cooper. Do you suppose anyone else had any sort of awareness coding?
I don't remember any older writers ever mentioning such a color coding system. That doesn't mean none existed, only that writers didn't mention it. However, not many writers of my father's generation and earlier ever wrote of self defense like Cooper. Do you suppose anyone else had any sort of awareness coding?
G.T. Smith
New member
To MLeake
Well said Sir.
GT
Well said Sir.
GT
BT, during the Korean War, Col John Boyd, USAF came up with the concept of the OODA loop. This isn't color coding, per se, but it does have some relationship with the concept.
Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.
The idea being that before one can act, one must decide to take action. One can't decide to take action without being oriented to one's situation. One can't be oriented to the situation without being observant in the first place.
So, an observant person has an advantage over a clueless one. An observant person who can put his observations together to create a 3D plot of what is going around him has an advantage over an observant person who doesn't consider what he observes. A decisive person, acting on good information, has an advantage over an indecisive one.
Getting inside the enemy's OODA loop is the concept of acting, then acting again before he can figure out what happened in the first place.
Of course, if you want to go even further back, look at Sun Tzu's points about awareness of self being even more important than awareness of the enemy (though both are critical). Again, not color coding, per se, but very similar.
Sun Tzu also points out that the best victory is the one that occurs without a fight, because the enemy knows he has been outmaneuvered before he can even commence his attack.
So, I guess you could say such notions have been around for over a millennium.
Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.
The idea being that before one can act, one must decide to take action. One can't decide to take action without being oriented to one's situation. One can't be oriented to the situation without being observant in the first place.
So, an observant person has an advantage over a clueless one. An observant person who can put his observations together to create a 3D plot of what is going around him has an advantage over an observant person who doesn't consider what he observes. A decisive person, acting on good information, has an advantage over an indecisive one.
Getting inside the enemy's OODA loop is the concept of acting, then acting again before he can figure out what happened in the first place.
Of course, if you want to go even further back, look at Sun Tzu's points about awareness of self being even more important than awareness of the enemy (though both are critical). Again, not color coding, per se, but very similar.
Sun Tzu also points out that the best victory is the one that occurs without a fight, because the enemy knows he has been outmaneuvered before he can even commence his attack.
So, I guess you could say such notions have been around for over a millennium.
I have edited the opening post of the thread to add this paragraph:
I owe an apology to jmortimer, which I am making public because my offense was public. He had a typo in his post ("orange" for "yellow") in the thread that sparked this one. He's quite familiiar with Cooper's work and the color shift was a simple typo on his part, not a lack of knowledge. I truly did not intend to "call him out" with this thread, simply to take the color code discussion out of a thread where we had hijacked another conversation, and instead direct it to a thread where it could thrive on its own. However, I didn't take time to be sure he was cool with moving the discussion over, and there was some bad timing in that he was correcting his post while I was writing this one. Can't blame him for getting heated below. I'm leaving the post above unedited for thread continuity, and want to thank jmortimer here for his patience with my bumbling.
pax,
Kathy
I owe an apology to jmortimer, which I am making public because my offense was public. He had a typo in his post ("orange" for "yellow") in the thread that sparked this one. He's quite familiiar with Cooper's work and the color shift was a simple typo on his part, not a lack of knowledge. I truly did not intend to "call him out" with this thread, simply to take the color code discussion out of a thread where we had hijacked another conversation, and instead direct it to a thread where it could thrive on its own. However, I didn't take time to be sure he was cool with moving the discussion over, and there was some bad timing in that he was correcting his post while I was writing this one. Can't blame him for getting heated below. I'm leaving the post above unedited for thread continuity, and want to thank jmortimer here for his patience with my bumbling.
pax,
Kathy
Onward Allusion said:
There's a whole world of stuff we could unpack from this post (good one, OA).
"As long as the handler is not doing stupid things..."
In this context, stupid things would include carrying in bad gear. There are a lot of people out there who use carry devices that don't hold the gun securely, or that might even allow trigger movement while the gun is inside the device. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to find really good gear. All of the off-the-shelf holster makers sell at least one or two true dogs that should never have seen the light of day. Some of them sell nothing but dogs! But even the best have a few devices you can't really trust to hold the gun as securely as it must be held in everyday life.
What can happen when someone carries in a less-than-secure holster? Here are some examples:
Guns falling out of insecure holsters in public restrooms: Man hurt when gun blasts toilet; Man could be prosecuted for endangerment after dropping gun in restroom; Woman hit by stray bullet while sitting on toilet. Note that all of these are just the ones where the gun fired and made the local paper.* I have literally dozens more in my files, all equally tragicomic. I have even more stories that I’ve heard personally from talking to people who dropped a gun that did not fire and that did not make the news. In every one of these cases, the problem was kicked off with bad gear that failed to hold the gun securely. When someone went to use the facilities -- which would be one example of an awareness shift that always happens no matter how ninja you otherwise might be -- the holster tipped and the gun fell out. Oops.
So your carry gear can either help you stay safe, or it can contribute to dangerous situations.
What does this have to do with awareness while carrying? Everything. If you carry in poor gear, it's radically unsafe to think about anything else while the gun is on your hip. If you have a flimsy belt and a floppy holster, you're an accident waiting to happen. Not only that, your poor level of concealment -- it's much harder to remain concealed with a flippy rig -- almost guarantees that you'll be thinking about nothing else other than keeping your gear out of sight during the day. That's not just mentally exhausting; it's also a failure of awareness of a different sort.
What I'm getting at is, if your carry system holds the gun so insecurely that you can think about nothing but the gun while you're carrying it, you're doing it wrong on an awareness level, too. You need to stay outward focused to stay safe.
pax
*Edited to add: In every case where I have some knowledge past the headlines, the gun didn't "go off" when it hit the ground. Rather, the owner grabbed for it and hit the trigger inadvertently. Modern handguns are almost universally drop safe.
PAX is a Straight Shooter
Not necessary as I was mistaken and the timing was off on our posting. I feel bad that I was so tiny. I have learned from this and thanks to you I further investigated all things relating to Condition White, Yellow, Orange, and Red. I was mistaken, and for sure Col. Cooper intended that condition yellow be maintained until he went to sleep. You have many friend/supporters/admirers here and well you should. You are a class act. Thanks and God Bless.
Not necessary as I was mistaken and the timing was off on our posting. I feel bad that I was so tiny. I have learned from this and thanks to you I further investigated all things relating to Condition White, Yellow, Orange, and Red. I was mistaken, and for sure Col. Cooper intended that condition yellow be maintained until he went to sleep. You have many friend/supporters/admirers here and well you should. You are a class act. Thanks and God Bless.
WayneinFL said:
Good point.
Let's add one more thing: there's a lot of fresh scientific knowledge available to us that wasn't available in the early 1970s when Jeff Cooper began formulating his ideas.
For example, he didn't have the benefit of The Invisible Gorilla or a lot of the really ground-breaking, mind-blowing studies about human awareness levels that followed it. He certainly did not know that even people who are paying attention to the world around them truly aren't -- and cannot be -- as alert as they feel they are.
A good use of the Cooper color codes today would be to explain to students that
1) They need to pay more attention to the world around them, which will reduce their already-low chance of becoming the victim of a violent crime;
2) There are specific things to watch for, and specific areas where they should be more alert;
3) This doesn't have to make them grim, and in fact can make them joyful; and
4) No matter how alert they become, they will still need to learn how to effectively defend themselves when caught off guard, because true 100% awareness is literally impossible with human brain wiring.
pax
Frank Ettin
Administrator
But that is not the Jeff Cooper/Gunsite Color Code. The Jeff Cooper/Gunsite Color Code is a particular system intended for a particular use in a particular manner. The elements of that system have been described by a couple of students of Jeff Cooper's. We have also Col. Cooper's own statement (Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol. 13, pg.4, emphasis added)BlueTrain said:
There are other systems for using colors, numbers, letters, words or other forms of designator for threat levels, conditions of alertness, threat assessment (Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, and Preclusion) decision processes (Observe, Orient, Decide and Act), or response process (Avoid, Disengage, Evade, Escape). These systems are different from the Jeff Cooper/Gunsite Color Code and serve different purposes. They are useful for those purpose.
"Provide a verifiable citation..."
Just got this email response from someone I believe you know. The "quote" in question is so widely distributed on the web that I mistakenly attributed it to Col. Cooper but reading it carefully he would not state that he is quoting himself.
""That may be a paraphrase of Cooper by someone else with some added thoughts. Transcribed from a tape of the "Wendnesday Lecture" he stated, "Yellow - Relaxed alertness. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." There is no specific threat but you are aware that the world is an unfriendly place and that you are prepared to do something if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and your carriage says "I am alert." You don't have to be armed in this state but if you are armed you must be in yellow. When confronted by something nasty your reaction will probably be, "I thought this might happen some day." You can live in this state indefinitely.""
Just got this email response from someone I believe you know. The "quote" in question is so widely distributed on the web that I mistakenly attributed it to Col. Cooper but reading it carefully he would not state that he is quoting himself.
""That may be a paraphrase of Cooper by someone else with some added thoughts. Transcribed from a tape of the "Wendnesday Lecture" he stated, "Yellow - Relaxed alertness. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." There is no specific threat but you are aware that the world is an unfriendly place and that you are prepared to do something if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and your carriage says "I am alert." You don't have to be armed in this state but if you are armed you must be in yellow. When confronted by something nasty your reaction will probably be, "I thought this might happen some day." You can live in this state indefinitely.""
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
First, Wednesday, at mid-day, is indeed when Jeff Cooper would deliver his lecture on the Color Code for a 250 (Handgun) class at Gunsite. Second, the quote you posted above is very much like the description of Condition Yellow I posted in post 3, quoting John Schaefer's website. Mr. Schaefer (Fr. Frog) is a reliable source for matters related to Jeff Cooper and Gunsite. In post 3, I also linked to John Schaefer's web-page on the Color Code.jmortimer said:
At that link, Mr. Schaefer also quotes Jeff Cooper as follows (emphasis added):
Onward Allusion
New member
VERY good point Pax.
A bit off-topic, but I always carry in a holster and I always make sure that it isn't overly worn. Even a good holster can go bad when worn.
I don't know where the federal government got the idea of a code for the awareness level or whatever it is but it probably wasn't from Jeff Cooper. However, I think it's largely useless to ordinary citizens because they didn't come with any instructions on exactly what you're supposed to do or behave.
By the way, the blue in Blue Train is, well, just the color of a train.
By the way, the blue in Blue Train is, well, just the color of a train.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
J3, you obviously aren't a rookie then. I find the color codes and the other mnemonics Frank mentioned to be very valuable when teaching newcomers.