Convenience store shootout,

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HiBC

New member
I came across this video. Its real

It pretty much deals with many of the issues we relentlessly debate here.


Sure,the amchair crtics can come out with a bunch of "Woulda,coulda,shoulda"


This shows the chaos,the OOPS,I shot him and he keeps coming,how you can nearly shoot a loved one in a melee,,etc,etc.


Serious food for thought. FWIW,I have no armchair criticism to offer. It is what it is. I think you had to be there.
https://youtu.be/1rng_zNl-vQ


(Note:Initially,I posted the wrong link,as TunnelRat discovered.This is the right one)
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Oh that one. I remember when that made the rounds some time back. I think you can find the whole thing out there.

As for Monday morning quarterbacking. That's the point of this subforum. To look at something and try and draw lessons learned, think about what might have been different options at the time, etc.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
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AK103K

New member
They have guns, and seem to know where the trigger is, but that looks like about it. I think they were lucky. Mom is also lucky her daughter didnt shoot her too during the struggle.

Having a gun and the training to use it, is a lot different than just having a gun, and feeling good about it.
 
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Sharkbite

New member
Having a gun and the training to use it, is a lot different than just having a gun, and feeling good about it.
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AMEN. Id rather have lots of training and use a Hi-point then no training and a custom wiz-bang pistol
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
They did okay ... any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. They both came out unscathed, and the perp is in the hospital.

Training can only go so far. The lesson I take away from this is "Shoot to stop the threat." It looks like Mom scored one hit and then stopped shooting -- she didn't expect the perp to come back and wrestle her for the gun.
 
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TailGator

New member
There was no good reason for the BG to come back at them, except for perhaps a desire to eliminate witnesses. To my mind, that increased their danger considerably, as well as demonstrating the unpredictability of such encounters. Daughter firing at BG while he was grappling with her mom was certainly high risk. I have often thought that I probably wouldn't take a shot in such a situation, but she did and got away with it.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
The perp was a big guy (or so it appeared), and he may have spent years in prison bulking up on the taxpayers' dime. He also may have been high on some controlled substance or other. This is why we have to remember that there's no such thing as a one shot stop. Bad guys who are hopped up on drugs can absorb a lot of bullets and not seem to even feel it. This is why police are taught to shoot until the threat has been neutralized. If he's still coming, they're still shooting.

The article didn't say how many shots actually hit the guy, but it was very close range and I'm guessing it was more than two or three.
 
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AK103K

New member
This is why we have to remember that there's no such thing as a one shot stop. Bad guys who are hopped up on drugs can absorb a lot of bullets and not seem to even feel it. This is why police are taught to shoot until the threat has been neutralized. If he's still coming, they're still shooting.
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As we all should be. Yet this seems to be a concept lost on a lot of people.

I think they were very lucky in the way things went here. Im just not a fan of the "luck and hope" school of thought when it comes to being prepared.
 
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Rangerrich99

New member
Well, it was a lot of chaos, but they survived and stopped the attack, eventually, so good job.

I think I remember this one, and I believe I read that they scored three hits. One to the leg, one to the back, and one to the torso? I know, the back is part of the torso, so maybe they meant one in the front and one in the back?

I like that they seemed to communicate with each other and very quickly came to a decision to act, and then acted decisively, if not perfectly efficiently. Also, in spite of the BG coming back to continue his attack, they kept fighting and eventually got the upper hand on their attacker.

Not to be critical, but it looked like they could use some training and practice on how to control recoil impulse better for faster follow-up shots.
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
This shows the chaos,....
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Like the, "here's the gun. You shoot him. I don't wanna shot him."

The perp was a big guy (or so it appeared), and he may have spent years in prison bulking up on the taxpayers' dime
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Tyrone Lee was not a big guy and not particular bulked up at all. He just had on some winter clothing. See :09 in the video below. I doubt he is more than 170 and doesn't appear particularly muscular at all. None of the news articles about him indicate anything about being an ex-con, only that he is suspected of 10 previous robberies.

He also may have been high on some controlled substance or other.
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He was on meth. He also apparently has mental issues.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_e8039ab9-3b01-558b-a16e-b2f31d61e940.html

Video here...
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10151010050674990
 
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Lohman446

New member
Floyd Mayweather Jr. weighs in around 150lbs. Connor McGregor weighs in at below 170 for most fights. Don't mistake lack of bulk with strength and ability and do not mistake bulk with strength.

Guns are great for beginning to "equalize" things but they do not do so entirely. You better have some type of back-up plan and the training to institute such plan in case things go beyond gun shots. Even lethal gun injuries are likely to allow an attacker a physiological ability to inflict damage to his or her victim. The good news is gun shots to your attacker, even non-lethal, likely increase your chances in a close combat situation.

The other lesson I would take from this. If you are going to accept off body carry of a defensive weapon as the route you want to go with there are probably better choices then defensive handguns.
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
Floyd Mayweather Jr. weighs in around 150lbs. Connor McGregor weighs in at below 170 for most fights. Don't mistake lack of bulk with strength and ability and do not mistake bulk with strength.
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No confusion. The guy just wans't particular big or bulky. He also wasn't a prize fighter, just so there isn't any confusion. He had a shotgun. He was violent. Nobody here is questioning if he was a threat.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
I raised the size issue, because when I watched the video he looked much bigger than the females and I was commenting that a big guy can potentially absorb a lot of lead before becoming incapacitated. I guess I was wrong on the size, but apparently he was hopped up on something and that, also, can make a person capable of absorbing a lot of lead before being neutralized as an active threat.

The argument shouldn't be about whether he was 5"-10" or 6'-0" tall or if he weighed 175 or 210. The point is that a gun isn't a magic talisman, and it's not realistic to fire one shot and expect the bad guy to either drop dead (of fright?) or run away because you have a GUN!
 
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Leaf

Moderator
I agree with Aguila Blanca but let's not fool ourselves. Keep in mind drug use or being under the influence of anything gets a disproportionate amount of credit than what it should due to the mythical powers attributed to them by "drug warriors." There are MANY reasons a human being can take a surprising amount of lead, not the least of which being the motivation level of the individual being shot.
 
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kenny53

New member
I have to wonder what caliber the lady was shooting. I didn't notice a lot of recoil. To me it recoiled just about as much as my 22 mag. No matter, just guessing on my part. I also wonder about the projectile, fmj, hollow point, soft point. I guess we will never know but gives a chance to review what we would do.
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
I have to wonder what caliber the lady was shooting.
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I don't know and have not been able to find out what caliber(s) the women were shooting. They fired at the suspect with 2 guns. The older woman used a stainless revolver and the woman used a blued semi-auto.

shot placement shot placement shot placement.
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He was shot in the mouth, neck, arm, back, and leg.
 
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