Conundrum

[threegun]

BikerRN, I've been looking and learning and generally seeking the best ways to put lead on targets as fast as possible for nearly 2 decades now. I got tied up in the conundrum you speak of. Choosing those skills to develop that I thought were best but never really being able to cover all conceivable options imaginable much less those possible. Then I stumbled upon system that covered more option here on TFL. Its called the Fluid Situational Response. For a basic description its a system that allows your response to be based on the events immediately unfolding before you. Your actions or reactions are based on your position in the reactionary curve. The reactionary curve positions are ahead, even, or behind. Ahead equals your gun out and ready bad guy is producing a firearm but not yet ready to fire. Even obviously equals both pulling and raising guns simultaniously. Behind, the worst possible position, equals you at gun point your firearm not yet produced.

If ahead you can stand and deliver or advance on your adversary. If even you run off the X while delivering accurate fire. If behind you run off the X and deliver accurate fire the moment your firearm is available.This means running in any direction while delivering accurate fire. Sounds hard but it really isn't.

This fluid reasponse, especially when even or behind in the curve, allows our body to give in to the natural desire to flee mortal danger yet respond appropriately.

Now I am happy with my training. I feel that it covers a super wide swath of possibilities. It gets me moving, which makes for a much harder target to hit, allows me to seek cover, and allows my body to give in to the desire to flee. Just a great concept.

I still work on the basic necessary skills like reloading, jam clearing, gun retention, weak hand shooting, ETC.

review some of Sweatnbullets posts for better details.

 

[mnero]

I am forced to conclude that Threeguns tactical analysis is basically accurate. If a mugger is foolish enough to be facing you and you are armed, then a decisive action is probably your best bet. Assuming the mugger is no fool and is behind you, then Threegun makes an especially good point about moving and reacting quickly. If you are confronted with a situation like a mugging and fighting back is your best option, then distancing yourself from the threat is paramount. A person who is running and doing so in an erratic way is a much more difficult target. Second seek cover and third return fire if needed and possible. The tactics he describes compare well with those that I learned in the military both in AIT and when training for armed base security. The need to deliver accurate fire while avoiding the enemy's fire may sound obvious, but it does require intense training for such reactions to become instinct. IMO In most mugging situations, you have already become the victim by walking into the situation in the first place and it is probably not the wisest thing to resist. A wallet is replaced a life is not, but sometimes you have no choice. Biker it sounds like combat to me, no there probably won't be any automatic weapons and certainly no heavy weapons, but dead is dead.

 

[Eagle0711]

Intresting discussion. There are no answers, only questions. Been involved in this sort of thing for over 40 years.

The trainning has evolved from one hand point shooting to using two hands, weaver to isosceles, and so on. Each school claimming to have the best truth. Some go from school to school trying to figure out what is best. They seem to get confused. I have no military or LEO experience, but it seems that one must have the Warrior mindset.

You simply can't plan for every type of attack that may occur. What if you can't have your gun? Using the gun one should know and have wired in all styles of shooting. Point, aimmed, one hand, two hands ect. One should avoid if possible beind suprised. The mindset to take it all the way with a knife, stick, car, or hands and feet. Be confident in what you can do, and do it to the very best of your ability, and don't worry what school, gun, caliber is best. Make informed decisions and let the chips fall where they may.

When all is said and done the Warrior mindset will prevail.

 

[markj]

"Once you've shot a double-leg takedown a thousand times, you'll just begin to get it."

A grond ponder? Honest coach I got it dont make me run the stairs again....

My son doesnt like wrestling, he dont like hurting another.



As far as sd goes, KISS is my method. Simplify everything. In a heated moment you just dont need complex.

 

[threegun]

If you are confronted with a situation like a mugging and fighting back is your best option, then distancing yourself from the threat is paramount.

If you are ahead in the curve it is quite possible that standing and delivering or even advancing would be more benefitial. Once the bad guy is gun out then its off the X asap and while shooting.

A person who is running and doing so in an erratic way is a much more difficult target.

Agreed however erratic movement is more likely to cause a fall. Movement in general, even straight line movement, combined with immediate (while moving) accurate fire, makes for a very difficult target to hit. IMO its the combination of the two that makes it so effective.

Second seek cover and third return fire if needed

I don't agree here at all. Return fire should begin asap. If the firearm is ready before cover is attained, start shooting.

I don't like giving the bad guy my back either. If I need to flee my upper body should be pivoted facing the target while my firearm is working. The only exception is when behind in the reactionary curve and compliance is not possible. Here gaining distance is very helpful while you are producing your firearm.

 

[mnero]

That makes sense to me. I did not mean it as necessarily sequential, but rather in order of priorities. But I think we basically agree here; accept perhaps in when to resist, but that must be decided by the individual facing the threat. Of course if he is facing you and you are armed, then an immediate frontal assualt is probably best; as I pointed out in my first post:

"If a mugger is foolish enough to be facing you and you are armed, then a decisive action is probably your best bet"

 

[threegun]

Hopefully our Situational Awareness allows us to sniff out and avoid everything. Then if that fails hopefully it gave us enough time to formulate a response.

If you are behind in the reactionary curve you should only resist if you believe that death will result if you do nothing. Being held at gunpoint produces some very low odds of survival if you resist. So only resist if death was coming anyway. Anyway thats my take on it.