Conundrum

BikerRN

New member
BIKERRN
Internet locations


April 20, 2011


Reader
Various internet domains



Dear Friends,

I have recently read a thread in a forum that has sparked my interest, and this typed opinion.

Most gun owners will not seek training beyond that required to obtain their firearm of choice. In short, training becomes that which must be completed in order to reach a desired goal. For some of us, we seek training to reach a goal beyond mere possession of a firearm, as we realize that mere possession of a handgun does not a shooter make.

This gives rise to various disciplines and it’s disciples. Let me say up front that I believe all disciplines are no more than theory until that user puts them to real life usage in combat. Resisting a mugger is combat, and may very well cost one their life, or the mugger’s life. I am of the theory, “Better 100 dead muggers than one dead innocent.

Each tactic and method will have a time for usage. There is no “One size fits all” in the modern world. There are systems, platforms, and tactics that are more likely to allow one to persevere and be victorious than others, but nothing replaces what one does in a real encounter, and we won’t know what that is until we have that encounter.

Studies and laboratory results give a good indicator, but are by no means the definitive answer. The best we can do is say, “If such and such happens, so and so may react like so.” This makes me ask, “What if someone reacts like we didn’t expect? What do we do now?” I’ve reacted as expected, and reacted not as expected on various occasions. One never knows for sure, as I said before.

This prompts the observation that proponents of various methodology can, if they are not careful, become too mired in a technique that gives rise to dogma and when things don’t go as planned they don’t know how to react. I’m not saying that one should attempt to obtain the equivelant of a Black Belt in every discipline, but it strikes me as common sense that one should have a modicum of understanding of various disciplines. We will naturally gravitate to things that we are good at, that’s understandable. The thing is, how good are we at understanding and using techniques and methods not to our liking?

I will admit up front, I hate hand to hand combat. Getting hit, or stuck with a shank, scares me more than getting shot. I don’t say that because I think I’m bullet proof. I know I have a glass jaw, and have been knocked unconscious enough times to confirm it, and have seen the lethality of a simple homemade prison weapon. If I’m unconscious I can’t maintain control of things like keys, weapons, or my own destination. Thus I find it not something to like.

So now we arrive at the core of my typing. Each discipline has it’s proponents, but is one really better than the other? I would say that each discipline has it’s time for usage. On the other side of that coin is that the more options one has, the longer it takes to make a decision. Gee, that’s quite a conundrum isn’t it?

Sincerely,



BIKERRN
 

AK103K

New member
The answer is........ Bruce Lee. :)

Follow his philosophy, and you really cant go wrong. It applies to everything in life too, not just martial arts.

Not over thinking things to much helps too. Not that debating things here is good for that. :)
 

Water-Man

New member
"Resisting a mugger is combat"

That's a real stretch. Even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt on that statement, which I do not, it still doesn't make one combat proven. I am aware that you didn't claim it would.
 

BikerRN

New member
Water-Man,

If it's not a form of combat what is it then?

It certainly isn't tea and crumpets. Fighting a violent attack has to be something, and I contend that it is a form of combat.

Biker
 

Mobuck

Moderator
I never was much of a fighter. My confrontations were short and spur of the moment kind of things with little time for "tactics" and I either came out the clear winner or got clocked out immediately. These were all in my teens before I came into better control of my temper. I had a great concern about being able to stop after having gained the upper hand as I became older and learned to walk away from a confrontation.
Being afflicted with arthritis early in life, I have carried a concealed weapon for many years compounding my effort to avoid a face to face conflict which might end with a shooting. I've been fortunate in not having ever fully drawn my firearm during a personal situation but have been presented with at least two that came very close. Attitude, demeanor, and confidence in the face of a conflict have solved many problems w/o presenting a firearm but an instant reponse to immediate personal danger within striking range is the only option. A stand up punching match or out running the bad guy is mostly not an option for me so deflecting the assault, gaining space, and drawing is my strategy. A lifetime of firearms use gives me the experience to "go to the gun" w/o much thought but I do practice when I feel like it.
 

BikerRN

New member
Now you've modified your statement to 'a form of combat'.

OK, at first I thought you were just needing to clarify something, but I see that is not the case.

We will have to disagree on what combat is.

Biker
 

MLeake

New member
BikerRN, Bruce Lee's approach was to study many arts, but only take from them those techniques and philosophies he found personally useful. He wanted to streamline things, eliminate unnecessary effort and steps, and then test whether his ideas worked by going up against other artists.

So I guess you would say the philosophy was simplification, then proof through application.
 

AK103K

New member
So I guess you would say the philosophy was simplification, then proof through application.
Yup, that sums it up nicely.

There is no one "true way", as much as most schools will tell you otherwise. Not saying anyone is wrong, but they probably arent right either. I think the closest "school" gun wise that follows the tenet, would probably be Gabe Suarez.

If you want to simplify things to the basic level, its pretty easy. Cheat as much as you can, as often as you can, do everything youve always been told is wrong to do to people, and do it first and as hard as you can go, and above all, win at all costs. You fight till they are dead or you go until you are. If youre dead, it wont matter, you wont know it. :)
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
Now you've modified your statement to 'a form of combat'.
If something is "a form of combat" then it is, by definition, combat. If something is combat then it is also "a form of combat".
I know what REAL combat is.
Good. It's fortunate for the rest of us that there are dictionaries.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/combat
1. to fight or contend against; oppose vigorously.
2. to battle; contend.
3. Military . active, armed fighting with enemy forces.
4. a fight, struggle, or controversy, as between two persons, teams, or ideas.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/combat?show=0&t=1303447097
1: a fight or contest between individuals or groups
2: conflict, controversy
3: active fighting in a war

A fight or struggle between two persons/individuals (e.g. between a mugger and his victim) is well within the definition of "combat".
 

BikerRN

New member
Thank you Mr. John.

Not often, but sometimes I wish there was an "Ignore" feature.

You handled that matter much more civilly than I would've. I saw the post soon after it was posted, but had to still my hands.

I posted the first post because I see many people stuck in dogma, and I've learned the hard way that fights don't go as you plan them. They will be what they will be. I had hoped that people would read it and reflect upon it, not comment on the validity of combat.

I guess it was my poor attempt at being philosophical.

Biker
 

Powderman

New member
My experience mirrors exactly an old saying regarding military tactics and planning: "The best composed plans and order of battle go right to **** when the first round is fired."
 

AZAK

New member
I would say that each discipline has it’s time for usage. On the other side of that coin is that the more options one has, the longer it takes to make a decision. Gee, that’s quite a conundrum isn’t it?

I don't see it as too much of a predicament. As others have noted: simplify. Use what works for you. Generally a few well mastered techniques beats out numerous " I sort of know its".

One can have a very modest amount of "training" in the martial arts or years/decades; however, it very often comes down to:

reading people
"who wants 'it' more"
and what are you really willing to do/give to get "it"

Work on these three and you will be prepared to win most of your conflicts.

Also, train to actively avoid the conflict entirely; that is a won fight every time.

(Note: this is purely talking self-defense related.)
 

MLeake

New member
Kelly McCann had an article in a recent Black Belt magazine discussing exactly that last point, AZAK. When people get into actual, potentially lethal hand to hand, a small assortment of simple, highly-practiced techniques usually beat a broader repertoire of techniques that aren't as well ingrained.

So, in addition to simplicity, add high repetition counts.

Or, as a coach of mine from high school used to put it, "Once you've shot a double-leg takedown a thousand times, you'll just begin to get it."
 

MikeNice81

New member
I always think of an instructor I once knew, when I think of Bruce Lee's philosophy. He always said the man that only knows three moves is more deadly than the man that knows a thousand if he practices them with diligence.

Learn, try, test, simplify, practice, repeat

The fight will always be what it wants to be. So, Bruce's other philosophy works very well. Be like the water.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
JohnKSa... It's comforting to know you're so accomplished with a keyboard and dictionary.
Perhaps my response was a bit less pleasant than it could have been, however, if you're going to try to finely dissect the specific wording of a commentary you should be prepared for a response in kind.

The fact that a person has been in combat means that he understands aspects of combat that those who have never been in combat will find difficult or impossible to fully comprehend. It does NOT, however, entitle such a person to redefine the word "combat" to suit his personal definition.

The bottom line is that the OP did not misuse the word "combat" in his post and your protestation to the contrary is baseless.
 
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