Consistency, How do I get it?

rcollier

New member
I purchased my first centefire a Savage 111 in 25-06 and thanks to a lot of great advice have it sighted in pretty well at 100 yds I am about 1.5" high.
Now I would like to work on getting more consistent groups? It seems like my first group is always pretty good but not always the case, I am trying to follow a set routine, breath control, squeeze the trigger etc.
Any tips that AT'ers have found to help? :confused:
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
I will risk ignoring the comments that will be made about rifle cleaning, dirty barrel, fouling, barrel heating, and all that, and offer the following on the human factor:

Your first group will be fired while you are fresh and relaxed. The second will be fired when you are a bit tired, maybe with a bit of a sore shoulder (depending on recoil, dress, etc.). The third will find you a bit more tired and maybe even more sore, and so on. After while, what was fun at 1 PM will be a real chore at 5 PM, but you do need to finish that last box so you can reload and...

Jim
 

Doyle

New member
If you are old enough, you'll remember the old highway signs that say "speed kills". Well, it kills good groups too. Slow down. If you take 5 or 10 minutes between shots, that's OK.

Don't be shy about trying different ammo. You'll be amazed at the difference you can get with some barrels just by switching ammo (sometimes bullet size; sometimes just the brand).
 

rcollier

New member
I am meticulous at cleaning after each session of shooting.
I would agree with the "speed kills" comment I may not be taking enough time between shots. Will definitely give that a try !
Thanks
 

tdoyka

New member
I would agree with the "speed kills" comment


my h&r in 45-70 has a 405gr fbfn goes roughly 1400fps. my tc encore in 444 marlin gets roughly 2000fps out of a 280gr ranch dog. my 30-40 krag with a 165gr ranch dog goes roughly 1800fps. i wouldn't stand in front of any one of them!!!:D each of these boolits will kill a deer, speed doesn't kill, shot placement does....:):):)
 

Doyle

New member
am meticulous at cleaning after each session of shooting.

Stop. Bore cleaning can kill your accuracy. Most barrels shoot best on a fouled barrel. Clean your bore/remove copper fouling when accuracy drops off (could be as infrequent as every 200 or so rounds), then refoul your barrel with half a dozen wasted shots before attempting a new group.
 

4runnerman

New member
Cheek weld, Finger position, eye relief, to be consistant those steps also need to be consistant. Very slow pull on the trigger. Pay more attention to cross hairs on target then when the rifle is going to fire. All that and practice- no substitute or that.
 

cw308

New member
Good advice 4runnerman. Try not to overheat your barrel 1 minute between shots, 5 shot groups. When shooting different brand of rounds, being that your not reloading at this time, rifle should start out clean. I'm one that clean's after every range trip, never had a problem. Let's not brush our teeth until our gums bleed. Also if your looking for tight groups a good light trigger will make a big difference. Good luck with your rifle,Be Safe
 

tobnpr

New member
So much that goes into it...but two that I feel are most important are:

1) Bone support/solid cheekweld: No muscles should be used supporting your shooting position. I see guys with a cheekrest far too low for the height of their optic, trying to hold a shooting position with their neck muscles and part of their chin on the comb of the stock. Laughable.

You need to have a cheekweld. Height of the comb, and optic, need to be such that you can lay your face/cheek against the side of the stock in a natural position, with no muscle support- and be looking straight down the optic. Snipers/. Operators that spend hours (literally) observing through their rifles' scopes describe being able to fall asleep behind the rifle and wake up on target.

2) Find your NATURAL respiratory pause. This is the natural pause, between breaths where you are relaxed...here is a link that describes it:

http://www.militarytraining.net/Marksmanship/Marksmanship Breath Control.htm

During your respiratory pause, if you're unable to hold accurately on target- don't force the shot. Let it go, continue to breathe normally for a bit- then try again.

3) One more...you mentioned trigger "squeeze". It's really more of a "press". Make sure it is straight back, and not off to one side. It's natural to want to pull the trigger to the right- forcing the muzzle end of the rifle to the left. Press with the pad of your index finger- not with the trigger in the first joint.
 

ammo.crafter

New member
25-06

Do you reload? If so, as others have said, slow down.

I have you tried cast lead rather than copper jacketed slugs?

Scope mount and rings! Are you mounting the base with the proper screws and tork and in and equal pressure manner?
The same goes for the scope rings.
Some people go as far as bottom tapping mounting holes in the barrel prior to securring the base...if you do not know how to do this, do not do it.
Never go "cheap" with base and rings, they can make a tremendous difference in accuracy.

Good luck.
 

DaleA

New member
If you're serious about improving your shooting skills find some competition to take part in. Nothing spurs improvement like posting your scores against others.

Also as some have noted you can practice a lot for cheap with a .22 rimfire. If your range has a shooting program for .22 see if you can join. Breath control, bone support, trigger squeeze, cheek weld, use of sling, it can all be learned and perfected shooting four positions (prone, sitting, kneeling and standing) on an indoor 50 foot range.
 

T. O'Heir

New member
Consistent groups, assuming good ammo and shooting technique, is mostly about the rifle's bedding. If your Savage has loose screws, anywhere, it'll be inconsistent. If the metal doesn't quite fit the stock, regardless of what it's made of, it'll be inconsistent. If there's any part of the barrel touching or close to the stock on a rifle that likes a floated barrel, it'll be inconsistent. No guarantees if anything by floating a barrel though. However, if the barrel doesn't touch when cold but does when hot, that's no good.
Conversely, if the barrel is floated and the rifle doesn't like it, it'll be inconsistent too. Relax. it's not a big deal to float a barrel that isn't or put in a pressure point on one that doesn't like it. Bedding a hunting rifle isn't expensive or rocket science.
"...my first group is always pretty good but..." Indicates you getting tired or the rifle prefers a clean, unfouled, barrel. Not all barrel like a bit of fouling either. Whole thing depends on what you're doing with the rifle. For a hunting rifle, first shot, cold barrel, accuracy is more important than the all day consistently the same of a target rifle.
 

kraigwy

New member
90% plus of shooting is mental. consistency is about concentration.

Do not fire a shot without concentrating on the fundamentals. Forget get the group, for get the last shot, the last shot is history.

You say your first group is good, fine. The same group should be the same.

You have a zero. You know where the bullet is suppose to go. Good, no put up your spotting scope, don't look at the target until you are through shooting.

Take a note book and write down everything that's happening. Call your shots. Write in your note book the call. Example #1, black, 3 oclock. #2 in the white high, 12 oclock, etc.

If you are going to shoot a 80 shot match, DONT. Instead, shoot 80 one shot matches.

Concentrate on one shot as if its the only one you are going to get, With enough practice and concentration you will find yourself automatically concentrating on one shot. Its a habit you can develop.

To give you an example, I've fired a lot of HP and 1000 yard matches over the years. On slow fire at 600 and in 1000 yard matches I always seem to get a good shot the first one out. I know what I'm suppose to do. I know my zero, I check the wind and temp. Take a second look in the scope to make sure nothing changed (or correct if it does) and let the round go. I get sloppy and start chasing spotters instead on forgetting the last round (which is history) and concentrating on the conditions of the round I'm shooting now.

I"ve always shoot better scores if after each shot, I come back to my windage zero, check the scope, seen what I need and put it on the rifle, fire then put the zero windage back on.

I'm in fact firing 20 one shot matches instead of one 20 shot matches.

The same applies to practice or plinking at 100 yards.

You can only shoot one round at a time. Only worry about that round. Looking at history (the last shots) will effect your next shots because you are thinking about the last shot(s) instead of concentrating on the present shot.

When I coached, I would never let my (newer)shooters see their data book, I kept it for them. They gave me the call and I would plot it. Nor did I let them have a spotting scope on the line. After they completed the string I might or might not tell them the score. After the match back at the motel room and the equipment is put away, I would set down with them and go over their score book, studying every shot. That's when you can think about History.

The time to look at groups is at the end of the shooting session. Then look at the group and see if you can spot the calls you noted in your note book.

Unrelated: Never underestimate the value of a data or note book. Write down everything.
 

samsmix

New member
A good balanced diet, high in fiber, with regular exercise.

Seriously though, not much can be added to what KraigWY had to say. I will say this though, DON'T fall for the old "squeeze and let the rifle surprise you" crap. That was the old military way for training people who may or may not have been shooters. It gets you on paper at a certain distance, but truly accurate shooting is a press of the trigger, and it is a deliberate one. That rifle goes off when you tell it to, not otherwise.
 
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First and foremost, a high quality sandbag rest system.

Close second is consistent ammo - a handload or factory load it likes, with consistent brass weight, consistent bullet weight, consistent powder charge, and consistent seating depth and crimp.

After that, things like consistent tightness of the action to stock screws, using a torque wrench can matter.

As far as personal input (loose nut behind the trigger), others have covered that but in a word, practice. Find a form of holding the rifle with the rest that works for you. I like the "hugging a baby" method:

Somewhat like this but with the left arm and hand going all the way back and actually grabbing the buttstock - putting your hand between the buttstock and shoulder.

http://cdn.theboxotruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/e98-6.jpg

Also, remove copper if/when there is any.

That covers most of it.
 

MrBorland

New member
kraigwy said:
90% plus of shooting is mental. consistency is about concentration.

Do not fire a shot without concentrating on the fundamentals. Forget get the group, for get the last shot, the last shot is history.

+1.

I've said (typed, actually :rolleyes:) many times that one needs to forget about the target. It's merely a recording device that records how well you executed the fundamentals for each shot.

Get your zero, then put your mind solely on the process of executing each shot well, rather than the goal of a tight group. The target will take care of itself, and you can check it after you're done shooting (and it should confirm what you already know).
 
James K is correct IMO

You may be starting to flinch a bit after the first group. Every shooter has a different tolerance level for recoil and muzzle blast. As you shoot a few rounds, you become a bit distracted by those factors, and the ability to shoot relaxed and execute the shot correctly diminishes a little bit. I experience the same thing. After a few rounds with hunting rifles my consistency starts to deteriorate. Therefor, I only shoot 5-10 rounds per range session. Hunting only takes one well placed shot so it is not a factor.

As well, your gun may not fit you perfectly. My son's 25-06 fits me like a glove, and is a sweet rifle for me to hunt with. Other rifles have not been like that, and it has to do with the construction and dimensions of the stock.
 
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