Comparing 38 and 357

2

2damnold4this

New member
Well, for defensive purposes the hard cast load sucks. Likely no expansion and over-penetration. For other purposes, I'm sure it's a very good load. But the whole Lucky Gunner ballistic tests are for measuring terminal ballistic performance for defensive purposes.
Click to expand...


Good point.
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
You missed the point. The point being that if BB can make the hardcast loads that hot, then I am sure that their hollow point loads are just as hot.

Here is from their website for their SD loads:
Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo
Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. --G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Given how close my own test was for the Outdoorsman, I have no reason to doubt their stats.
 
2

2damnold4this

New member
Here is a test on Youtube of the BB 38+p out of a S&W snubby. It's just one shot but it seems to have done pretty good:

Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP gas checked fired from a 2" berrel S&W 638 through four layers of denim into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB calibration: 586.8 fps, 3.4"

Impact velocity: 960.4 fps
Penetration: 12.1"
Retained weight: 159.6 gr
Max expansion: 0.695"
Min expansion: 0.599"
 
S

Slimjim9

New member
:eek: OH EM GEE :eek:
I'm going to have to study this and come up with a different load for my EDC LCR. I switched from Hornady 110+ to Speer 135+ just on belief that it had to be better (plus better availablilty). Might have to go back to old school Golden Saber - or figure out how to pocket carry my PPS M2. :eek:

ETA: Target Sports USA had both Golden Saber and the Ranger 130+P in stock in 50-round boxes. One each inbound.
 
Last edited:
K

KyJim

New member
Here is a test on Youtube of the BB 38+p out of a S&W snubby. It's just one shot but it seems to have done pretty good:

Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP gas checked fired from a 2" berrel S&W 638 through four layers of denim into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB calibration: 586.8 fps, 3.4"

Impact velocity: 960.4 fps
Penetration: 12.1"
Retained weight: 159.6 gr
Max expansion: 0.695"
Min expansion: 0.599"
Click to expand...

Now that Buffalo Bore load is one I would carry with. Thanks.
 
N

Nanuk

New member
There are a host of rifle cartridges that contradict a theory of a 2500 fps threshold to be more effective than pistol rounds.
Click to expand...

I laugh everytime someone brings up that dogmatic velocity floor when most of them have no idea where or when the theory came into being. I am glad someone else gets it....
 
H

Hal

New member
Now that Buffalo Bore load is one I would carry with. Thanks
Click to expand...
Well - heck yeah!


Shoot enough of that and you'll end up getting a whole bullet for free!

After all, the bullet starts out @ 158 grains and ends up weighing 159.6 grains!
;).
LOL!
 
Last edited:
S

Slimjim9

New member
slimjim9 said:
Target Sports USA had both Golden Saber and the Ranger 130+P in stock in 50-round boxes.
Click to expand...
Had the new loads to the range today. The Ranger was a little louder and more recoil than the Golden Saber but still very controllable and accurate in the LCR357. Feeling better about my carry load now. :cool:
 
B

Bamashooter

New member
My wife's 38spl is loaded with the 90gr Hornady Lite ammo. It's penetration was just 10" but the expansion was great. I was surprised by the Speer's shortcomings and the Winchester's quality. I agree that Im going to have to study these results and maybe look in to another carry load.
 
T

TruthTellers

New member
As expected and as many have often said, 158 grain stuff in the .357/.38 caliber are not for defense. They're too slow to expand, overpenetrate, or are just outclassed by other ammunition.

I'm never buying 158 grain ammo for self defense.

Remington revolver ammo is impressive. Clearly the wheelgun stuff is the best handgun ammunition Remington makes. Winchester, while it expands well and penetrates, is always disappointingly underpowered. A +P .38 load that delivers LESS than 200 ft/lbs from a 2 inch barrel? Come on guys.

The Barnes bullet is the best performer for .357 out of any barrel.

Not surprised how well full wadcutters penetrated.

I would have liked to see them test Winchester White Box JHP for .38 and .357 and would like to see 6 inch barrel tests as well. Yeah, 6 inch barrels aren't common carry guns, but for home defense I think they'd find use.


Bottom Line:
Best .38 for 2 inch barrel: Hornady Critical Defense 110 +P and Remington Golden Saber

Best for .357 4 inch: Any Barnes, 125 Remington Golden Saber
 
O

O4L

New member
2damnold4this said:
Lucky Gunner did a short follow up article on the test which can be found here
Click to expand...
That article answered a question I had on the comparison of 38/357 to 9mm.

A quote by Chris Baker the author of the article...

"If I had to summarize all the results in one sentence, I’d say we saw a handful of .357 loads that performed about the same as a good 9mm along with a few .38s that were almost as good, minus a couple of inches of penetration. "

There are some other interesting quotes that make reading this article worthwhile, IMHO.
 
O

O4L

New member
2damnold4this said:
Here is another update by Lucky Gunner: link

This entry discusses the trade offs in power and recoil.
Click to expand...
Another good read.

A quote from the article...

"Loading up that revolver with hyper-velocity he-man ammo might give me a slight edge in a fight, but I think there is much greater advantage to using lower recoil ammo that allows me to have better control over the gun. "
 
J

JAREDSHS

New member
:DI was just wondering---if in a self-defense shooting if any of this really matters to the perp that receives the bullet?
 
T

TruthTellers

New member
^ Probably not, but it's best we as responsible gun owners know which bullets are likely to overpenetrate and be a danger to others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top