Colt & S&W 1917 45 Army revolver owners

[mj246]

Here's my new S&W M1917 that I picked up this past week from a local store. Hopefully gonna shoot it for the first time tomorrow. Not bad for my second firearm purchase (I love firearms with some history, especially from WWI or WWII).
Sorry that I must post the photos as attachments, I haven't figured out how to post the images directly yet and can't seem to find any of the threads describing how to do it.

 

[DG45]

That's a fine looking example of a S&W Model 1917 mj. I notice that your gun look a lot like zippy 13's on post #39 (I think) above. I notice that both yours and zippy's have a fine commercial looking blue like my 1937 Brazilian contract model. The difference is mine has a S&W logo on the left (thumb) side of the gun and a Brazilian Seal on the right side (back of the hand side). Neither yours or zippy 13's has a logo or seal anywhere that I can see.(zippy didn't show both sides of his gun though.)

I thought Model 1917's were parkerized. Does your gun have the flat top and square rear sight like curved top? In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm leaving a hyperlink that will explain. Incidentally this hyperlink has a lot of really interesting information for owners of these revolvers if you open all the links on it you'll see what I mean.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/1917and1937/pdf/1917and1937.pdf

 

[mj246]

Thanks DG45, I'm very proud of the find. My model 1917 has the rounded top with the U-shaped sight as seen in Figure 1 of the link you posted. It also has the "United States Property" under the barrel and the flaming bomb on the top left side of the frame right behind the cylinder (although it's very hard to see in the photo).

I can't remember where it was, but one of the websites I read while researching m1917s before my purchase said that some were parkerized and some were blued, with parkerization being favored more by the government as time went on, especially on any that were used during WWII. I don't really know anything about the history of my individual specimen yet, so there is a small chance that it was re-finished at some point, but I can't tell because the lettering and proof marks are still very crisp.

 

[guy sajer]

The original finish is blue for the S&W and Colt 1917's . Later govt refurbishment programs utilized parkerization .

 

[DG45]

One thing I've always wondered about the S&W Model 1917 model and its later commercial and Brazilian contract variations - and I guess this holds true for Colt Model 1917's too - is why was the gun was made with so much excess length in the chambers beyond what is neccesary to fit a 45 ACP cartridge in? If you notice a loaded cylinder, you'll see that the bullet sets pretty far back in the chamber - almost like a 38 special round in a 357. I can understand why the 38 round sets way back in a 357, the 357 was built to shoot a 357 cartridge, but the Smith Model 1917 was originally built to shoot 45 ACP wasn't it? or was it .455? I'm not really complaining. This could be a really great feature.

If you'll click on the hyperlink on post #62 above on this thread and scroll down through that website until you come to the place where there are about 5 or 6 different links shown all together, if you click on the last link of that group it'll take you to an article about how to make homebrew shotshells for a Model 1917 out of 30-06 brass. it's very interesting, but the main thing I noticed was how long that shotshell was compared to a standard 45 ACP or 45 Auto Rim cartridge. Thats how much excess space is in a model 1917 chamber. All that excess room is great for a shotshell.There's enough room in the cylinder to load lots more pellets in those homebrew 45 shotshells than are in commercial 38 shotshells, and at 5 feet the homebrew shell has a 6 inch x 6 1/2 inch pattern which would be absolutely perfect for snakes. At 8 feet distance the pattern is 16 inches x 16 1/2 inches which still isn't too bad. But I don't do resizing 30-06 cases, so I sure wish somebody would make these things commercially. A good commercial shotshell (say in 45 Auto Rim) for a 45 revolver is all that's missing from the ammo lineup to make a 45 revolver the absolute best all-aound yard work, land clearing, fishing and hunting, outback, brush country, floor of the truck, mountain type handgun made. But without a shotshell, there's still a big, big ammo lack before a 45 revolver can be all those things. Thats why mine is relegated to nightstand duty waiting for the hapless intruder to pick the wrong house to invade, while my Police Positive Special 38 Special that I can buy shotshells for makes all the outdoor trips. Are you reading this Black Hills?

 

[WC145]

Both Colt and S&W used a gun they were already producing and simply machined the cylinders to accomodate .45ACP and screwed on a .45 caliber barrel. I'm sure it would have been much more expensive and time consuming to make short cylinders and a longer barrel (ala S&W 625) or shorter frame (see Taurus 905IB) to work with the shorter .45ACP cartridge. Considering the need for the guns at the time and the volume being produced my guess is that they saw no reason to reinvent the wheel.

 

[zippy13]

Neither yours or zippy 13's has a logo or seal anywhere that I can see.(zippy didn't show both sides of his gun though.)

DG45,
The other side of mine is unmarked, no fancy S&W logo as is on my other S&W's. The only reference to S&W is on the left side of the barrel. The butt is marked "U S Army Model 1917" and the serial number.

 

[vwfool]

I bought my Brazilian off Gunbroker about 6 years ago for. It was really beat up, and looked liked it had been dropped on a gravel road about 4 times. Along with this, it also had a purple cylinder where it had not spent enough time in the solution when it was first blued. I finally decided it needed to get a little work done. I had it reblued and had the barrel cut down to just below 3 1/4", the old site put back on it after making a slight height adjustment, and had it reblued. It turned out great! I love this gun. It is easy to carry in a holster or even in your back pocket, and it is one of if not the most accurate revolvers I have ever owned. Not bad for a total investment of maybe $425.

I had 1917 Colt, but I traded it off to my gunsmith to do more work to a couple of more projects. I like the way small Colts feel like the police positive; however, I don't care for the feel of the big Colts.

I don't have a pic of it, but I also have a US marked 1917 S&W someone else reworked a long time ago. It still has the 5 1/2" barrel, it has been reblued, and it came with an interchangeable cylinder in 45LC. Very nice and accurate, too.



Sorry, one of these days I'll work on taking a good picture. The gun really looks better in person.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The gun was modified when he got it and my understanding is that the work was done a long time ago when these guns were a dime a dozen and chopping them down to handier dimensions was a popular thing to do.

Heck WC, it's a popular thing to do NOW!

You have one great CCW revolver there.

You know, I always hatad the 'Fritz" specials where they cut the trigger guard off. Thank goodness the smith didn't do that to this one. It looks to me like it's the way a CCW big bore revolver should look.

Deaf

 

[45Shooter]

New Member

Hello Folks,

I am very happy to find this thread of 1917 lovers! I was lucky enough to score a Colt 1917 at the local gun show this past weekend and would like opinions/comments.

The Good Stuff:
Price was right
It is a numbers matching gun
Acceptance mark (h) on the cylinder
Very good bore
Crisp action
Accurate shooter (4 inch group at 21 feet free standing)
Low Army registration number(5077) means it was made between Nov 1917 and Jan 1918.

The Bad Stuff:
Someone chromed it!
Civilian grips
Someone filed off some of the front sight (which is why it is accurate).
Lanyard ring missing

The stuff I dont know about:
It appears to have 2 (matching) serial numbers!

Should I have the chrome stripped and the gun re-blued, or just leave it as is and have fun with it? Also, I would love some speculation about value!

Can't upload photos cuz the website insists I am not logged in (and yet I posted this message)

Thanks,
45 Shooter

 

[45Shooter]

photos for previous post

photos

 

[45Shooter]

photos

photos

 

[DG45]

Welcome to the forum, 45 shooter. I like your old Colt. I don't think we've seen one just like that before. I was hoping to see a lot of variations and customization schemes when I started this thread and I sure haven't been disappointed.

I recall reading that the actor Steve McQueen was the owner of a nickel plated one, which I've never seen a picture of (unless it's the one you just bought!)

I really like the handgrips on yours. They look like grips I've seen on real old turn of the Twentieth Century grips on Police Positives, but your gun is much larger. I don't think I've ever seen grips like that on a Model 1917 Army.

Anyway, I like your gun. I wouldn't do anything to it if I were you, but just because I like it as it is, not because you'd destroy a national treasue or anything if you made some changes.

Thanks for the post and the pics.

 

[45Shooter]

Hello DG45

Thanks for the comments. I have seen photos of the Steve McQueen gun and was amazed at the similarities! Thankfully, price was not one of them.

I have spent the week getting smart on moon clip loading and unloading tools (there are many to choose from!). The 1917 is so fun to shoot that I just reloaded a batch of .45 ACP and can't wait to get to the range again!

45Shooter

 

[woad_yurt]

Any takers?

When this thread was new, I posted a picture of my all original, all correct, all complete, made-during-the-war S&W M1917. The serial number is 81,XXX, almost exactly in the middle of the range.

I hate to do this:

Does anyone want to buy it? It's my only .45 and I'm slimming the herd down a bit. It has no issues, shoots perfectly and looks great. It'll come with a bunch of full moon clips. In the earlier part of this thread, someone complimented my photography skills. I didn't take that picture; it was from the listing through which I bought. Here's a new pic. Even so, the gun still looks way better in the hand.

For real, this is a pretty nice piece and I'm tight on cash. I sell this reluctantly. Somebody should jump on this. Send me a private message if interested. I have more pictures, too.

 

[Dave T]

Since 45 ACP revolvers are one of my weaknesses (along with 44 Specials) and I just acquired my first actual 1917, although it's not in original condition (smile).

First though is another interesting variation on the 1917, a Model of 1950 45 caliber Military, or 4th Model Hand Ejector. This one shipped from the factory in Feb. 1953. Other than holster wear its only detractions are a cut down front sight and removal of the lanyard loop.

And more recently, this customized 1917 with a cut down barrel and after market finish. The hard chrome was nicely done and the barrel is about 3-1/4", or as short as you can get it and still leave the original ejector rod full length and have its catch intact. The re-location of the front sight was nicely done and makes a nice sight picture from the shooter's view.

Got some other 45 ACP revolvers but they have adjustable sights so they don't exactly fit with these fixed sight models.

Dave

 

[DG45]

SO FINE

Dave T

I like both your guns, but that 3 1/4" barreled one is an absolutely gorgeous gun. I've never seen one customized like that before. I'm not keen on some custom jobs. But I like that one! I've never seen handgrips like those on one of these 45's either. If you don't mind me asking, where'd you score those? Can you share with us what all was done to that gun and what it all cost? Looks like it might have cost quite a wad, but whatever it cost, you got one fine-looking handgun out of it.

 

[Dave T]

DG45,

Thanks for the kind words about my '17. I'll tell you what I can but it won't be much help.

I bought the gun as is so I can't say what the chrome finish cost. Haven't had a gun done in hard chrome in years so even that past experience won't tell you anything. Other work done by a previous owner: barrel cut down to the ejector rod stud then crowned. The entire front sight was removed from the cut off portion of the barrel, re-contoured and brazed or silver soldered on. I would guess some smoothing of the action components was done as the DA trigger pull is smooth but fairly heavy. I'm guessing they left the full power springs in to insure ignition while using moon clips.

The stocks are plastic and from a company call "Pointer". I got them off eBay or GunBroker (I don't remember which) and they came in the original cardboard box. It's labeled as size S4 and the instructions are "For 357 Magnum, 38/44 Outdoorsman only". They fit the square butt 1917 perfectly and the grooved surface is stable in hand. The Pachmayr grip adapter was one I had on hand.

Dave

 

[orsogato]

Pictures kind of stink but you get the idea. A World War I doughboy would have been well armed indeed w/ either. These are current production s&w and pony.

 

[DG45]

If you don't mind my asking Orsogato, how much are the new standard model 22's (and that revolver is a model 22 isn't it?) selling for? Do they have a gun lock on them, and if they do, could you send us a picture so we can see what it looks like.

Recently, I saw an engraved modern S&W Model 22 in 45 ACP being advertised for sale for $7,500. US.

DG