Colt Diamondback(2-1/2" chambered in .357 & .38 special)?

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boa2

New member
dfariswheel:

First, I wish to apologize to you, if I had seemed to disbelieve you, about this Colt Diamondback not being "Genuine" and therefore, not being produced by Colt to chamber the .357 magnum round! I know that you are a Colt "Expert" and, I also know that you wouldn't have told me this negative information, unless it was absolutely true! My mind, just didn't want to believe that this Diamondback wasn't really some type of special Colt gun! However, based upon all of the true facts that you have given me in this thread, I'm now convinced that it would just be "Futile" to spend for a letter from Colt, regarding this "Frankenstein" monster gun!

Based upon the time frame of this very early production Colt Diamondback in 1967, if Colt's would have built prototypes of these early "D" frames, that would have safely fired .357 magnum's-then, it seems reasonable, that Colt's would have started producing these guns for the gun public, long before the later, "Stainless"(Magnum Carry)ever came to be a reality!

I'm now, going to proceed, with giving all of this sad news, to the seller of this Colt Diamondback, in an effort to convince him that this gun is a "Dangerous" weapon and should not be fired by anyone(Unless, of course, that it turns out that this gun will NOT chamber a .357 round?)! It will be my desire, to help to prevent anyone else from becoming harmed, by purchasing this weapon, thinking that it would safely, fire .357 magnum ammunition!
 
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Dfariswheel

New member
You most certainly own me NO apology.

The point is, Colt experiments usually get talked about, and we know all about the experimentals like the .256, .22LR, and .41 Magnum Pythons.

There's not one word on any .357 Diamondbacks, plus Colt was always very specific about over-stressing the "D" frame guns with hot loads.

ALL the experimental Colt's are VERY closely controlled, and are still locked up in Colt's fabled Pattern Room safe.

The idea that Colt would not only build a .357 Diamondback AND allow it to escape custody is just not likely.
Plus, such a super-rare gun would be worth a good-sized fortune, and would be in some advance collector's collection.

I'd recommend taking a CLOSE look at the "357 Magnum" stampings, and I'll bet you'll see a definate difference in the factory stamps.

If this runs true to my experience, the owner will:
A. Disbelieve you when you tell him it isn't a Colt factory gun.

B. Disbelieve you when you tell him it's not a safe conversion, and WILL explode if fired, possibly not immediately, but soon.

C. Will politely refuse to accept that this is no longer a valuable Colt Diamondback, but is now really nothing but a wall-hanger or conversation piece.

D. Will assume you're either trying to cheat him out of the gun, are stupid, or just don't know what you're talking about.

After many years in the business, and many cases of things like this, I reluctantly came to the conclusion that you do the best you can and if they don't listen, you tried.
 
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boa2

New member
dfariswheel:

1)Thanks!

2)I'll do what you have recommended in observing the stampings on this Diamondback?

3)I really was trying to "Cling" to this gun-because, I was afraid that if this gun was very special(And, legit!)I'd be a big "Loser" if I let it slip out of my hands, to go to another interested party?

4)Actually, the stamping of ".357 &" was placed just in front of the factory stamping of .38 ctg(And, this looked kinda funny to be on the very front of the short(2-1/2")barrel? Yet, I thought that if this Diamondback actually was a "Prototype" then maybe, anything could be possible(Since this gun, would never have been mean't for the general public, to ever see it!)?

5)Well, you have always been of great help to me, with your "Expert" Colt information! I have learned alot from this-and, I do appreciate it! The knowledge that I have gained from you, has resulted in my discovering some very nice Colt revolvers! I'll always look forward to whatever you might have to say about the various Colt's! :)
 
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22-rimfire

New member
When you go look at this gun again, take another 38sp Diamondback with you to compare the markings and so forth. (I believe you have one.) Everything is the same with these guns (except stocks on the 2.5") between guns. If there were modifications you should be able to recognize them with the reference gun.

Dfariswheel: Do they blue the guns before or after the roll marks are placed on the barrel? I assume that the bluing is done afterwards so no marks would be visible and the bluing would be consistant between the barrel and the inside of the markings.

It could simply be a mismarked barrel. It could also be a 38spl DB that someone "professionally" roll marked after the fact???
 
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Sixgunz

New member
Holy thread revival, batman!

Sorry, but this is the only discussion I could find on this gun. A very similar gun to what is being discussed here is for sale on my local backpage. I figured it was the same gun, but the serial numbers are different. And, according to this ad, it is chambered for 357 mag too! Is this a legit prototype or did someone do this aftermarket?

BTW, I have no dog in this hunt - the gun isn't mine & I have never met or corresponded with the owner.

http://phoenix.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/20-000-colt-diamondback-357-and-38/61699067
 
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laytonj1

New member
And, according to this ad, it is chambered for 357 mag too! Is this a legit prototype or did someone do this aftermarket?
Click to expand...
The colt factory letter with it clearly states it left the factory as a 38 Special....
So, without proof from the factory, it's somebody's custom conversion.

Jim
 
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Dfariswheel

New member
The give away on these types of things is the very non-standard way the barrel is stamped.
Since removing the markings and re-stamping would be obvious and difficult, the person doing the conversion just stamps the extra wherever they can fit it on the barrel.

Colt would NEVER mark a barrel like this, prototype or not.
Why would they? They have access to all the barrel roll stamping dies so if they made up a prototype they'd either correctly stamp it or not stamp it at all.

The bottom line is the older "D" frame Colt's like the Diamondback were never made in .357 Magnum for two reasons....
One is the cylinder is too short for Magnum ammo, and two, the size of the frame and cylinder thickness were simply not up to the stresses of Magnum level ammo.
The later stainless steel Magnum Carry was made of stronger steel and had higher level heat treating.

You occasionally see a firearm re-worked for a caliber it was never intended for.
It's hard to get inside the head of the fools who do these things, and what's scary is that often they're working as a "professional gunsmith" who should very well know better.
That may be the problem...they think they know better then the company that made it.
One reason these converted guns are often in brand new looking condition is because they usually go grenade after a shot or two so they don't get worn.

Over the years I've seen or heard about guns like the infamous .41 Magnum Pythons, older S&W M&P 38's reworked to .357 Magnum, old weak design .22 rifles from the early 1900's reworked to .22 Magnum, and I was once told about a 1880's Belgian Damascus barrel black powder shotgun that was re-chambered to (God help us) 3 1/2 inch Super Magnum.
The owner had just bought it and asked the gunsmith if it was okay to shoot steel shot in !!!!!!!

The maddening part is, if a Colt letter is bought and shows this gun shipped as a .38 Special, the owner will probably refuse to believe it and will claim Colt is lying about having made it. That's what one .41 Magnum Python owner claims.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
Wow....

WOW!

That guy simply can't read the factory letter from Colt.

$20,000?

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I have half a mind to contact him and offer him $500 for it because it's a mangled after-factory, NON-mint Diamondback that has been fired with factory unauthorized ammunition (.357) and is very likely damaged because of that.
 
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SaxonPig

New member
Well, whatever the hell it is shooting 34,000 PSI 357s in it certainly puts to rest any worries about 18,500 PSI 38 +Ps...
 
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OzeanJaeger

New member
I have an Army Special with "DA .41" marked on the barrel. It was rebarreled and chambered when it was new by some enterprising owner, so everything looks like it belongs and it has an even patina. It could be that, or it could be a factory mistake, in which case the paperwork (a Colt Letter) probably won't show that. Either way it's a Franken-Pistol (like mine) and not worth much as a collector piece.

BTW, I have two factory new Python cylinders as backups for the ones I shoot. You may want to post on the Colt Forum. I know tha not long ago Colt auctioned off all their X pistols.

Honestly, I wouldn't touch it for more than $1k without providence.
 
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Bill DeShivs

New member
Colt didn't mark guns ".357 & .38 Special."
It would have been marked ".357 Magnum" by Colt.
Until recently- everyone KNEW .357s would shoot .38s!
 
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Ibmikey

New member
Bill, “357’s would shoot .38’s” how can anyone counter this statement? Dimensionally the cartridges are the same other than the .357 being 1/10th inch longer so why would there be doubt that the shorter cartridge would not fit and fire?
As for a factory Diamondback loose that was a prototype .357, sounds like the old “ swamp land for sale” ploy.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
If it were truly a Colt factory prototype, it might not have been marked with a cartridge chambering at all.

Many prototype guns never were given a full set of markings because they were intended to be destroyed after testing.
 
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Satchmoeddie

New member
YES<> A DIAMONDBACK WAS SOLD WITH .357 Mag/38 Specl CTG stamped on the barrel, and sold from the Jewelbox Pawn Shop in Phoenix Arizona, back in 1968. Colt did some research and only showed 8 or 9 Diamondbacks were shipped to "The Jewel Box" in 1968. It said nothing about .357, but I assure you this gun would chamber SIX .357 rounds, and fire them. I think I have a picture of it somewhere. I live in Phoenix, where this gun was sold, and listed on The Back Page. It says "Diamondback" on the ribbed barrel, and .357Mag/38 Spcl CTG on the barrel too. The assumption was the Diamondback was intended for use by department who forbid the use of .357, and the chambering was discontinued, OR the barrel may have been mistamped, but it would chamber and shoot .357, so that theory holds little water. The owner of the Jewel Box requested more .357 Diamondbacks but to no avail. He passed away maybe 20 years ago. The store's inventory of collectible guns was in the millions of dollars. My father loved to browse in that shop. He was an avid hunter, and even worked as a game warden for a while.
 
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laytonj1

New member
YES<> A DIAMONDBACK WAS SOLD WITH .357 Mag/38 Specl CTG stamped on the barrel, and sold from the Jewelbox Pawn Shop in Phoenix Arizona, back in 1968.
Click to expand...
Well, that makes two different guns, D2856 and D3967. No one is questioning if the guns exist. The $20K question is did the factory or bubba make them. Colt is not the only one with dies and chamber reamers. It is yet to be proven if it came from the factory that way. The factory letter for that gun shows it left the factory as a 38 Special. It's really no different than the 41 Magnum Pythons. Folks claimed they were factory made and had (what looked like) factory markings on them but, IIRC, turns out some outfit in Florida was converting them.

IMO, the fact that the OP's serial number and the one for sale in Phoenix have different serial numbers supports the custom conversion theory.

Jim
 
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