Colt closing rumor
- Thread starter OkieGentleman
- Start date
Peter M. Eick
New member
When I consider Colt closing, I only look at my collection, and say Colt is only minimally represented, but it is represented.
We need to stand behind our manufacturers because even if the products are poor quality at least they exist.
If Colt folds we will have lost a company to choose from in a democratic society and slowly move to a limited number of manufactures.
Consider how we would feel, if only S&W and Ruger were left, and all other manufactures were driven from the market by HCI?
Lets stop the bad PR and get out there and pick up a Colt or two. We need to vote with our money to keep the options open.
Just my 2 cents worth.
We need to stand behind our manufacturers because even if the products are poor quality at least they exist.
If Colt folds we will have lost a company to choose from in a democratic society and slowly move to a limited number of manufactures.
Consider how we would feel, if only S&W and Ruger were left, and all other manufactures were driven from the market by HCI?
Lets stop the bad PR and get out there and pick up a Colt or two. We need to vote with our money to keep the options open.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Peter's advice is good. The Colt Co. may be run by a bunch of dorks, but the product (45 Colt Auto) is the best. Carefully select one, take a deep breath, and reach for your wallet. I am personally taking his advice this week! 
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
Dogger and others,
I don't know about how the gun business works, but I do know that companies routinely hire ex-generals as front men to get contracts through their still-serving buddies. The ex-generals know they are being played for suckers and that they are nothing but influence peddlers, but the money is good. After a while, one ex-general's contacts retire or transfer, and the company fires him and hires a newly retired general with fresher influence. It is all part of the game and that general will have no more influence than one of those cardboard cutouts of John Wayne in a video store.
Jim
I don't know about how the gun business works, but I do know that companies routinely hire ex-generals as front men to get contracts through their still-serving buddies. The ex-generals know they are being played for suckers and that they are nothing but influence peddlers, but the money is good. After a while, one ex-general's contacts retire or transfer, and the company fires him and hires a newly retired general with fresher influence. It is all part of the game and that general will have no more influence than one of those cardboard cutouts of John Wayne in a video store.
Jim
I don't know if this is true or not,and I can't find any info to back this up. I heard as of yesterday Dec.15, Colts doors were closed by a take over holding company and everything was being removed from the premesis ? Is it true?
I was never impressed with Colt handguns,but I must admit that they had some beauts. I thought they were always overpriced and here at last I thought they caved in and became a government anti gun suck up. But if they are now really closed thanks to whatever, We all have lost a piece of American history. Sad day in my book! For what its worth
I was never impressed with Colt handguns,but I must admit that they had some beauts. I thought they were always overpriced and here at last I thought they caved in and became a government anti gun suck up. But if they are now really closed thanks to whatever, We all have lost a piece of American history. Sad day in my book! For what its worth
Yes, I said if you want the original commercial JMB pistol, buy a Colt... If you want a POS copy, buy a K!M3ER!!
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
Brian Bilby
New member
If you want a good base to build a gun on at a fair price, buy a Colt 1991 or a Springfield 1911A1. If you want a pump action 45, with pot metal parts that has a lot of unneeded features and will need parts replaced and is priced too much, buy a Kimber. Got 4 more Kimbers in the last week for repairs. At this time I have more Kimbers coming through the doors for repairs than any other manufacturer, as far as reliability goes. Talked to one of the leading 1911 smiths in the nation yesterday on business and i asked him his opinion on the quality of them and he said that Kimbers are junk, gets allot of them in for repairs too and that he has to replace half the internal parts in the gun to get them to last. Same here.
Facts are, we have a few people on this page who have had good luck with their Kimbers, even though most have only put a box or two through the gun so far, then we have more that have had to have the guns sent back, had parts replaced to make them work, or have been burned multiple times. Same thing on other forums. Problem is the MIM parts and the production levels. When Kimber was putting out 10-15K guns a year, the problems were not as acute. Now at 30K+, is more common. The MIM parts are crap. Colt uses a few MIM parts, did it for years before Kimber ever did and took credit for it, and theirs are not great but better than the ones Kimber pukes out.
My suggestion is to spend the money on a used Colt or Springfield which you can find for around $350-$375, have the stuff you want put on the gun, not what the manufacturer makes or sells, and then finish it off. In the long run you will have a better gun and a similar or lower cost than the Kimber, which costs around $500, then you have to spend another $100+ to get rid of the junk parts.
P.S- To all the Kimber lovers out there. Kimber bombed the FBI trials the hardest of any manufacturer in them. Accuracy was the worst. Colt was better and Springfield won.
Brian
Facts are, we have a few people on this page who have had good luck with their Kimbers, even though most have only put a box or two through the gun so far, then we have more that have had to have the guns sent back, had parts replaced to make them work, or have been burned multiple times. Same thing on other forums. Problem is the MIM parts and the production levels. When Kimber was putting out 10-15K guns a year, the problems were not as acute. Now at 30K+, is more common. The MIM parts are crap. Colt uses a few MIM parts, did it for years before Kimber ever did and took credit for it, and theirs are not great but better than the ones Kimber pukes out.
My suggestion is to spend the money on a used Colt or Springfield which you can find for around $350-$375, have the stuff you want put on the gun, not what the manufacturer makes or sells, and then finish it off. In the long run you will have a better gun and a similar or lower cost than the Kimber, which costs around $500, then you have to spend another $100+ to get rid of the junk parts.
P.S- To all the Kimber lovers out there. Kimber bombed the FBI trials the hardest of any manufacturer in them. Accuracy was the worst. Colt was better and Springfield won.
Brian
Sorry Brian, I don't buy your line of crap. I know too many Kimber Master Dealers personally, know too many people that own Kimbers and love them, including me. You sound like someone that has a grudge against the company and is spreading dirt.
If Kimber were really having that many problems, I wonder how the three Kimber Master Dealers that are within a half hour of my house have sent back a grand total of three Kimbers since they began selling them.
If Kimber were really having that many problems, I wonder how the three Kimber Master Dealers that are within a half hour of my house have sent back a grand total of three Kimbers since they began selling them.
Brian Bilby
New member
No Rik, I don't have a grudge at all, I'm just reporting the facts. You may not like them, and you may want to ignore it. The fact is that 20% of my business right now is fixing defects on the Kimbers. Whether it is bad slide stops, which they admit are a problem, too tight chambers, which they admit happen, or broken MIM parts. I know two Kimber master dealers who have had many problems with Kimber and one refuses to stock or sell the polymer model anymore because every one they sold was returned for repair. There are many hundreds of thousands more Springfields and Colts out there, and they have their lemons too, but when one spends $800+ on some of the Kimber models and has problems or parts breakage and the factory gives them a hard time or doesn't fix it, that's wrong. I don't care who does it. I have had my go rounds with Colt too many times to mention, but they always stood behind their screw ups. I also shoot allot of matches and run a IDPA club locally and see many Kimbers jam or malfunction. I see many Colts and Springfields puke too. My point is that the Kimber is not the miracle 1911 that you or the gunwriters make them to be.
As for the low number of problems you cite, there is a reason for that. Denial. You see it on these pages. People saying "It ONLY jammed twice out of a hundred rounds". People do not want to admit they bought a lemon. I'd say 90-95% of the guns Kimber sells are OK, but the other 5-10% aren't, and that is too much when one charges the price they do and make the claims they do. They hold themselves to a higher standard, so they should live by it.
I'm glad you like your Kimber and they work fine for you, point is there are many on here and many I know that haven't been so lucky and when you try to deny it or call their honesty into question, you insult them and yourself. Any gun, Kimber, Colt, Springfield, or whoever, that jams out of the box or breaks parts is a piece of crap. I don't care who makes it.
You keep shooting your Kimber, I'll keep shooting my Springfields, Colts and Caspians. So long as they keep going bang every time and hit the target, that's all that matters.
Brian
As for the low number of problems you cite, there is a reason for that. Denial. You see it on these pages. People saying "It ONLY jammed twice out of a hundred rounds". People do not want to admit they bought a lemon. I'd say 90-95% of the guns Kimber sells are OK, but the other 5-10% aren't, and that is too much when one charges the price they do and make the claims they do. They hold themselves to a higher standard, so they should live by it.
I'm glad you like your Kimber and they work fine for you, point is there are many on here and many I know that haven't been so lucky and when you try to deny it or call their honesty into question, you insult them and yourself. Any gun, Kimber, Colt, Springfield, or whoever, that jams out of the box or breaks parts is a piece of crap. I don't care who makes it.
You keep shooting your Kimber, I'll keep shooting my Springfields, Colts and Caspians. So long as they keep going bang every time and hit the target, that's all that matters.
Brian
boy oh boy oh boy
when will it all be like it used to be. never mind im not getting on my soap box tonight.
What we need is a good hand gun at a good price without all the crap. Commit a crime with a gun and your going down. Why is that so hard to sell. who cares if it is a colt Igun or a wingding special. The lights are on all over the country and nobody is home. I really feel like I have stupid tatooed accross my forhead and whether its the govt or the gun makers they are damned and determined they will be able to convince us what they are doing is in our best interest. and only they are smart enough to know what is best. why then does it take 20 years to get the job done. Death row is way to crowded . Iguns - bull****!
when will it all be like it used to be. never mind im not getting on my soap box tonight.
What we need is a good hand gun at a good price without all the crap. Commit a crime with a gun and your going down. Why is that so hard to sell. who cares if it is a colt Igun or a wingding special. The lights are on all over the country and nobody is home. I really feel like I have stupid tatooed accross my forhead and whether its the govt or the gun makers they are damned and determined they will be able to convince us what they are doing is in our best interest. and only they are smart enough to know what is best. why then does it take 20 years to get the job done. Death row is way to crowded . Iguns - bull****!
Brian Bilby
New member
It's kind of hard having a smart gun coming from a company run by morons.
And on a topic other than Kimber, the biggest overpriced accident waiting to happen in the 1911 field is the stainless enhanced Gold Cup from Colt. these take the cake. If you have a stainless enhanced, not a blue, and not a pre-enhanced, but a enhanced stainless Gold Cup your frame will crack sooner or latter. If you have one, turn it upside down and llok at the undercut area behind the triggerguard. Look at the area where the triggerguard meets the undercut. You will see sharp cracks forming form the corners, downward in a V shape. In a 45 it usually starts at about 1000 rounds, in a 10mm about 600. once it starts it speads. The problem is that the Gold Cup uses a trigger the same width as the triggerguard. When they cut the frame for the trigger, a sharp corner is left right above the sharp corner from the triggerguard. This combined with the thin amount of material present due to the undercut creates a stress riser, and it cracks. It doesn't seem to happen in the carbon guns and that's probably due to the fact that stainless fractures easier and isn't as easily heat treated as carbon. If you have one of these guns, check this out. Colt has in the past replaced these frames for me, with a new one without the undercut and using the same serial number so you don't have problems. But you have to tell them you want the pre-enhanced frame without the undercut. That's important because the undercut weakens and thins the steel to much. No problem with standard enchanced guns as they use the standard, narrower trigger.
Just trying to help and be objective. Since I bashed Kimber here a bit, I thought I would point out some defects from their competitors as well.
Brian
And on a topic other than Kimber, the biggest overpriced accident waiting to happen in the 1911 field is the stainless enhanced Gold Cup from Colt. these take the cake. If you have a stainless enhanced, not a blue, and not a pre-enhanced, but a enhanced stainless Gold Cup your frame will crack sooner or latter. If you have one, turn it upside down and llok at the undercut area behind the triggerguard. Look at the area where the triggerguard meets the undercut. You will see sharp cracks forming form the corners, downward in a V shape. In a 45 it usually starts at about 1000 rounds, in a 10mm about 600. once it starts it speads. The problem is that the Gold Cup uses a trigger the same width as the triggerguard. When they cut the frame for the trigger, a sharp corner is left right above the sharp corner from the triggerguard. This combined with the thin amount of material present due to the undercut creates a stress riser, and it cracks. It doesn't seem to happen in the carbon guns and that's probably due to the fact that stainless fractures easier and isn't as easily heat treated as carbon. If you have one of these guns, check this out. Colt has in the past replaced these frames for me, with a new one without the undercut and using the same serial number so you don't have problems. But you have to tell them you want the pre-enhanced frame without the undercut. That's important because the undercut weakens and thins the steel to much. No problem with standard enchanced guns as they use the standard, narrower trigger.
Just trying to help and be objective. Since I bashed Kimber here a bit, I thought I would point out some defects from their competitors as well.
Brian
Brian, I could accept that you have had bad luck with Kimbers that came your way...perhaps, if you think about it, your reputation for being able to fix 1911s with flaws is why you see so many bad Kimbers? Perhaps the VAST MAJORITY (talking like 99.9% ) of the Kimber owners have no problems, but you hear from a lot of the ones that do because of your reputation? Just a thought.
And there is no denial involved in the reports I have heard. I have three close friends who own Kimbers as well and shoot them regularly, and like me they have reported no failures.
One shop in this small town I live in has sold well over a hundred Kimbers in just the last year and I have spoken to many of the people that bought them who are regular customers, and they tell the same report.
So I am sorry, I just can't buy your gloom and doom. Maybe when I personally see with my own eyes or even hear in person from someone who has had a bad Kimber I will believe that the problems are as widespread as you want us to believe. Not till then.
And there is no denial involved in the reports I have heard. I have three close friends who own Kimbers as well and shoot them regularly, and like me they have reported no failures.
One shop in this small town I live in has sold well over a hundred Kimbers in just the last year and I have spoken to many of the people that bought them who are regular customers, and they tell the same report.
So I am sorry, I just can't buy your gloom and doom. Maybe when I personally see with my own eyes or even hear in person from someone who has had a bad Kimber I will believe that the problems are as widespread as you want us to believe. Not till then.
I notice that Springfield Amory 1911's carry
the letters 'Brazil' engraved on their frames, only their top premium 1911 pistols from the Custom Shops and the FBI's 1911s don't have this. Without having Colts around
to brag about the 'Made in USA' 1911s in the very near future, I think the guys at Springfield Amory would make up their mind to leave out the word 'Brazil' on all of their 1911 frames.
the letters 'Brazil' engraved on their frames, only their top premium 1911 pistols from the Custom Shops and the FBI's 1911s don't have this. Without having Colts around
to brag about the 'Made in USA' 1911s in the very near future, I think the guys at Springfield Amory would make up their mind to leave out the word 'Brazil' on all of their 1911 frames.
G. Kennedy
New member
If you look underneath the dust cover on some Springfields that is where they are putting the Brazil marking.
I don't think Brian is bashing Kimber totally. If you will notice on one of his posts he says that he thinks the vast majority of Kimber's guns aren't giving people problems. I read it as like he said it, Kimbers do have their problems and they should be better than they are currently because of how they market their product.
Also, how many Kimber owners have put a fair amount of rounds through their guns? In my experience a lot of people buy guns and hardly ever shoot them.
I think the point he's trying to make is that Kimbers are not the Ultimate 1911. All companies have their problems with production and I think Kimber is going through that right now. They're turning them out too fast and those MIM parts aren't all they're cracked up to be. If they were everybody would be using them for the lower cost they give.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm just saying that no company is perfect. As long as they make a quality product and are willing to stand behind it and fix it if problems do arise. The biggest reason Kimbers don't interest me is because you had better like the gun the way it comes. Otherwise, if you get different sights, grip safety, thumb safety, etc. you just wasted money you could have used getting a base/milspec. type gun and putting exactly the features YOU want on it. Kimbers don't interest me the way they come so no thank you I won't buy one.
I will say that I have seen Kimbers with their share of problems, they are not the be all and end all of factory 1911's. That being said Colt, Springfield Armory, etc. have problems to sometimes......That's just the way it goes.
I don't think Brian is bashing Kimber totally. If you will notice on one of his posts he says that he thinks the vast majority of Kimber's guns aren't giving people problems. I read it as like he said it, Kimbers do have their problems and they should be better than they are currently because of how they market their product.
Also, how many Kimber owners have put a fair amount of rounds through their guns? In my experience a lot of people buy guns and hardly ever shoot them.
I think the point he's trying to make is that Kimbers are not the Ultimate 1911. All companies have their problems with production and I think Kimber is going through that right now. They're turning them out too fast and those MIM parts aren't all they're cracked up to be. If they were everybody would be using them for the lower cost they give.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm just saying that no company is perfect. As long as they make a quality product and are willing to stand behind it and fix it if problems do arise. The biggest reason Kimbers don't interest me is because you had better like the gun the way it comes. Otherwise, if you get different sights, grip safety, thumb safety, etc. you just wasted money you could have used getting a base/milspec. type gun and putting exactly the features YOU want on it. Kimbers don't interest me the way they come so no thank you I won't buy one.
I will say that I have seen Kimbers with their share of problems, they are not the be all and end all of factory 1911's. That being said Colt, Springfield Armory, etc. have problems to sometimes......That's just the way it goes.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> If you want a pump action 45, with pot metal parts that has a lot of unneeded features and will need parts replaced and is priced too much, buy a Kimber. [/quote]
A POS is a POS, not matter what the K!M3ER lovers say. Listen to a real gunsmith, not a nerd who claims to be a writer! COLT, it's the real thing, baby!
They all have made POSs, true, but for 90 years there has been a COLT 45 Auto, the vast majority of those are good shooters. When you talk about 5 - 10% of K!M3ERS are POSs, that's way too many! Especially with the company in denial and certain self-styled writers!!
K!M#ER sure needs a little more experience before I will say they make the greatest 1911 pistol known to man! Until then, make mine a stock COLT.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
A POS is a POS, not matter what the K!M3ER lovers say. Listen to a real gunsmith, not a nerd who claims to be a writer! COLT, it's the real thing, baby!
They all have made POSs, true, but for 90 years there has been a COLT 45 Auto, the vast majority of those are good shooters. When you talk about 5 - 10% of K!M3ERS are POSs, that's way too many! Especially with the company in denial and certain self-styled writers!!
K!M#ER sure needs a little more experience before I will say they make the greatest 1911 pistol known to man! Until then, make mine a stock COLT.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Big George
New member
I didn't count, but about halfway into this thread we completely left the subject of Colt's possible (but improbable) closing...
Ford vs. Chevy
Shame, Sahme, Shame....
Ford vs. Chevy
Shame, Sahme, Shame....