Co-ax press short of deck travel

[tangolima]

I don't know what the proper term is. The distance the deck rises, I call that deck travel.

I have the press for couple of years now. I like it so far, but have observed a few shortcomings compared to conventional designs. One of them is the deck travel seems a bit short for rifle cartridges.

I was loading .303 British with cast bullets. The brass mouth is flared and I need to crimp it close. I couldn't do it with the seating die (Lee). The bottom of the die hits the deck (top side of the shell holder) before enough crimping. I ordering a Lee factory crimp die. Actually I have had similar issues with some other rifle calibers. One time I had to grind a bit off a die to size the brass.

Did you guys experience the same? Thanks.

-TL

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[tangolima]

Having thought about it a bit more, it is probably not a press problem, but a die problem or a brass problem. The brass is a bit too short compared to the die's crimper position. But the brass has been trimmed with Lee's length gauge.

I didn't have the problem before with other press because I was loading with jacketed bullets without flaring. No need to crimp.

-TL

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[RC20]

Can you post a picture?

The CoAxe does not use shell holders so I am completely confused.

 

[tangolima]

Can you post a picture?

The CoAxe does not use shell holders so I am completely confused.

It has its sliding shell holder that opens up when the deck is at the lowest point.

-TL

Edit: It is called shellholder jaws.

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[RC20]

Ok, got it.

My dies screw with the nut of the set collar more than far enough for the right setup.

Am I missing something still?

 

[tangolima]

Ok, got it.

My dies screw with the nut of the set collar more than far enough for the right setup.

Am I missing something still?

So you never have to screw the die so low that the die hits the top of the shellholder jaws when the deck is up? Guess you don't. So you don't have the problem that I have experienced. Thanks.

-TL

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[ms6852]

The issue is your die ring. You just need to adjust it so that the die can allow you to get your crimp. I have never had issues with mine and load 30-06 and 338 lapua with the same press. Please do not take offense but it seems that you may need to familiarize yourself with the press again. In this case you tube is your friend.

 

[tangolima]

I adjusted it alright. The die can't get any lower as it hits the top of the jaws.

Like I said, it is not a problem with the press. It is a die / brass problem.

-TL

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[RC20]

I am getting a seriously mixed message here, you asked for help and we are stumbling through this and you have posted no pictures and your description pretty much useless as you don't specify if its all crimp, resize etc.

But in the spirit of the Firing Line, I have included pictures.

You sure you have the jaws set up right? Should be concave surface (cured down like looking in a cave)

 

[tangolima]

Thank you for your replies. I didn't post a picture because I simply don't think it adds any value. The die can't go any lower as it is limited by the jaws. It is still not low enough to finish the crimp this time. In one occasion before it was sizing.

Never mind. If you didn't see it in your setup, you didn't see it. I think I have figured it out. It has nothing to do with the press, meaning I would have the same problem if I am using other press. Thanks again.

-TL

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[noylj]

The press is bringing the shell holder all the way to the die, so the press is fine. The die either has the crimp too high or doesn't have a crimp. Either that, or your case length is well below minimum.
Since I have never crimped a bottleneck cartridge, I can't help.
OH, wait, I did crimp some back in late '70s and early'80s, on a Co-Ax with lead bullets, but used a separate die for crimping

 

[tangolima]

The press is bringing the shell holder all the way to the die, so the press is fine. The die either has the crimp too high or doesn't have a crimp. Either that, or your case length is well below minimum.
Since I have never crimped a bottleneck cartridge, I can't help.
OH, wait, I did crimp some back in late '70s and early'80s, on a Co-Ax with lead bullets, but used a separate die for crimping

That's exactly what I have concluded. Thanks. Good point about the seating die not having crimp. It is possible. It is first time I try to crimp with this die. Haven't had the need for jacketed bullets.

For this one, I ordered a factory crimp die. It did the job. Last time I had problem with sizing, the rifle's chamber was on the short side. I fixed it by grinding a bit off the mouth of the die.

All good. Thanks.

-TL

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[higgite]

Good point about the seating die not having crimp. It is possible.

Not only possible, but fact. From Lee website: "303 BRITISH bullet seating die only complete. This is an easy adjust dead length bullet seating die. This die does not crimp, it requires factory crimp die."

 

[tangolima]

Not only possible, but fact. From Lee website: "303 BRITISH bullet seating die only complete. This is an easy adjust dead length bullet seating die. This die does not crimp, it requires factory crimp die."

Great. That definitely nails it. Thanks.

Follow up question if I may. Say I need to size the brass shorter for my rifle with short chamber. The die already hits the deck / shell holder. I grind the die so that it can come down more. Are there other options? I guess I can send the die to the manufacturer and have them do it.

-TL

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[Aguila Blanca]

Follow up question if I may. Say I need to size the brass shorter for my rifle with short chamber. The die already hits the deck / shell holder. I grind the die so that it can come down more. Are there other options? I guess I can send the die to the manufacturer and have them do it.

Before you start grinding -- exactly how/where is your chamber short? Are you saying the distance (length) from the case rim to the shoulder is shorter than the SAAMI specification for the cartridge? If that is the situation -- how do you fire factory-loaded ammunition? (Or does your firearm not accept factory-loaded ammunition?)

 

[tangolima]

Before you start grinding -- exactly how/where is your chamber short? Are you saying the distance (length) from the case rim to the shoulder is shorter than the SAAMI specification for the cartridge? If that is the situation -- how do you fire factory-loaded ammunition? (Or does your firearm not accept factory-loaded ammunition?)

It is 7.5mm swiss for k31. I don't really care about saami as I don't do factory ammo. The die was all the way to the deck and the action was till a hair short of fully closed. I ground off the die by about 0.01" so that I could lower the die further. The brass could then chamber ok. I could have reamed the rifle but I didn't want to. It was a milsurp that had been in swiss service for decades. The chamber must be in specs. It must be the die.

-TL

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[Unclenick]

Tangolima,

It sounds like what you have is the Lee Dead Length Seating Die which has no crimp shoulder. Instead, it has a narrowed portion just above the case mouth that is designed to line the bullet's bearing surface up straight above the neck for seating. If you shove a case far enough into it, it will run into that narrowed bullet portion and look like it is trying to crimp, but it doesn't really roll the case mouth over and inward as you would want for a lead bullet crimp groove. What you want is the Lee Bullet Seater Crimper Die, such as comes in the Pacesetter 2-die set. Or, you can crimp in a separate step with a crimping die.

 

[tangolima]

Tangolima,



It sounds like what you have is the Lee Dead Length Seating Die which has no crimp shoulder. Instead, it has a narrowed portion just above the case mouth that is designed to line the bullet's bearing surface up straight above the neck for seating. If you shove a case far enough into it, it will run into that narrowed bullet portion and look like it is trying to crimp, but it doesn't really roll the case mouth over and inward as you would want for a lead bullet crimp groove. What you want is the Lee Bullet Seater Crimper Die, such as comes in the Pacesetter 2-die set. Or, you can crimp in a separate step with a crimping die.

Thanks unclenick. I realize this now. The factory crimp die works.

Now it has become a general question. Is grinding the die the only option when the die hits the deck?

-TL

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[Unclenick]

Grinding the die mouth won't put a proper crimp shoulder profile into it. You'd have to buy their BSC die to get that. So what is the purpose grinding would serve? That narrowed bullet alignment portion isn't shaped for rolling the mouth of the neck inward to curl into the crimp groove of your bullet. There are occasions when grinding the mouth of a resizing die to get your case sizing to match a particular chamber makes sense. The seating die, though, is adjustable, and so it shouldn't need that.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It is 7.5mm swiss for k31. I don't really care about saami as I don't do factory ammo. The die was all the way to the deck and the action was till a hair short of fully closed. I ground off the die by about 0.01" so that I could lower the die further. The brass could then chamber ok. I could have reamed the rifle but I didn't want to. It was a milsurp that had been in swiss service for decades. The chamber must be in specs. It must be the die.

The way to know if the chamber is or is not in spec is to check it with a go / no-go gauge set. I asked about factory-loaded ammunition as a less costly alternative to buying an expensive gauge set for one use. IMHO it's unwise to assume that the chamber "must be" in spec. It's a mass-produced, military rifle that has seen an unknown number of rounds in military service before coming into your possession.

Your solution of grinding the die gets you ammo you can shoot, but it doesn't tell you whether the problem was the die or is the chamber.