Cleaning after Bear Creek bullets

[jetinteriorguy]

I’ve put a couple hundred rounds through my CZ75 and fifty rounds each through my LC9s and Taurus PT99 of the Bear Creek 124gr Truncated Cone style bullets. These are over 3.6gr of 700-X. They shoot fantastic but cleaning is puzzling me. There is a buildup in the grooves I’m having a hard time cleaning out. At first I thought lead, but it’s not lead. I’ve cleaned lead out many times using the copper chore boy strands and can always tell when it comes out. But no lead is coming out and the copper strands and brush is kind of sticky as if the coating on the bullets is coating the barrel in the grooves. I’ve used all my usually effective cleaning stuff and even tried acetone but the grooves are still gunky. Any suggestions?

 

[higgite]

I'd call Bear Creek and ask them. The blurb on their website leads one to believe that barrel cleaning is a breeze, if even required, after shooting their bullets.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

That’s what I was thinking, I wasn’t expecting this given their statement on barrels staying clean. I don’t think I’m driving them too hard, this load is well within lead data. I’m going to give them a call tomorrow and see what they suggest, just wondering if anyone here has any experience with this.

 

[Mike38]

I shoot Bear Creek bullets in my .32 S&W Long. 98 grain .314 dia. hollow base wad cutters. They do leave a funny looking coating in the bore, but it very easily cleans out.

 

[Sarge]

I shoot Bear Creek in several calibers and I have noticed coating deposits in some barrels, but not others. 4-5 passes with a dry brush knocks it out and a couple of patches soaked with Hoppes or CLP finishes the job.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

I shoot Bear Creek bullets in my .32 S&W Long. 98 grain .314 dia. hollow base wad cutters. They do leave a funny looking coating in the bore, but it very easily cleans out.

So what do you use to clean the crud out with? I’ve tried Hoppes, both regular and gel. I’ve tried brushes and wrapped one with copper chore boy strands. I’ve also tried EWL. I’ve even tried acetone. I’m thinking of plugging the barrels and soaking them with acetone to see if that dissolves out the coating. Maybe I’m making too big a deal and this coating doesn’t hurt anything.

 

[jaguarxk120]

If the bullets leave behind a coating, then is not the bore becoming smaller?

And if the coating makes the bore smaller then pressures should go up!

 

[jetinteriorguy]

It’s not that much of a buildup, more like a thin coating so bore constriction isn’t an issue. I did get the bores relatively clean just by keeping after it. I called Bear Creek and talked to Steve and he hasn’t encountered this, but a slight amount of the Moly coating left behind won’t hurt anything so at this point I’m not too concerned. I will keep monitoring the situation though to be sure it’s not a situation to be concerned about.

 

[Shadow9mm]

I had a similar problem with brazos coated lead bullets leaving heavy fouling after only about 50rnds. I tried several methods with poor results.

The best method I came up with was this
I put a sandwich bag over the muzzle and used a rubber band to seal it. I then filled the barrel with slip 2000 carbon killer, stood it up, and let it sit overnight. Then a good brushing with a stiff brush. Bronze or copper.

Due to my heavy fouling I had to repeat this process a couple times to get it clean.

The slip 2000 carbon killer has worked great for me for getting the plastic shotgun wadding residue from my shotgun barrels. so I guess I should not have been surprised it worked well to get the coatings out of my pistol barrel.

I tried SEVERAL other bore cleaners and CLP products from my collection up to and including JB bore paste (a mild abrasive) and the slip 2000 carbon killer worked the best for me.

here's my thread with the issues I ran into.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611094&highlight=brazos

I am suspecting I pushed the bullets too fast, I was in the 1100-1200fps range. I am planning to try and work with them a lower speeds under 1000fps and some slower powders to see if that helps but I have other projects to get to before I get back to messing with them.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Thanks, yeah the SLIP2000 is good stuff. I like the idea for plugging the barrel.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

So I finally decided to quit being so lazy and research this myself. Using Kroil followed by JB Bore paste or just Kroil seems to be the most often recommended method. But in general just a light cleaning with Kroil every once in a while is sufficient and the coating left behind is not an issue. So for me I’m just going to load em and shoot em and keep an eye on it.

 

[cdoc42]

Jet, if it is moly being left behind, it may become a problem. I used to moly coat all my inventory of several calibers with the Neco system. I had a 7mm STW that lost significant accuracy, and I thought it may have been due to the buildup of moly in the rifle grooves. Since moly washed off my hands with simple soap and water, I tried that for one solid week, every day. I could not get patches that were not coal-black. Then I tried every gun cleaner I had, which numbered about 7. No luck - patches still black. I traded the rifle on another purchase and I stopped moly-coating bullets. In retrospect, if one decides to use moly, I think applying a single coat to the bore in the same manner as cleaning the gun is better then repeated coating with bullets.

 

[Unclenick]

I never had an issue with the NECO process. I still have a lot of bullets coated with it, but I do clean it out after every range session. Bore Tech makes a special moly cleaner called Moly Magic that seems to work well, but so does Carbon Killer.

In the case of the residue in Jetinteriorguy's bore, I am wondering how much is moly and how much is a polymer. Shotgun wad residue is a polymer, but there is no guarantee it's the polyethylene a lot of wads are made from. There are a number of powder coat resins out there, including epoxies, and I don't know what they are using. I do know about the only solvent I've run into that will take out pretty much any polymer, including epoxies, is methylene chloride. You find it in solvent-based paint strippers for that reason. So you could buy some paint stripper that uses it (check the label) and see if that doesn't take it out. Just be sure you get your grip panels and anything else plastic off the gun first or are very careful not to let any of it get loose.

 

[Mike38]

jetinteriorguy, I run a patch soaked in Hoppe's, let sit for 5 minutes, bronze brush 3 to 5 strokes, another patch with Hoppe's. Done. I should add, the pistol that I shoot Bear Creek bullets in is a European target pistol. The bore is like a mirror. Smoothest center fire pistol bore that I have. I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

 

[Mike38]

Bear Creek uses a Moly coating? I did not know that.

 

[10wt308]

Would a couple jacketed bullets fired at the end of your session help?

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Would a couple jacketed bullets fired at the end of your session help?

Thanks for all the ideas guys, I’ll give them a try. I did try some copper plated rounds at the end of my session today but they didn’t do any good. As far is the coating being moly, if I remember correctly when talking to Steve at Bear Creek he referred to them as such.

 

[Shadow9mm]

just be careful, enough of that stuff builds up and you could end up with a bore obstruction and a kaboom. firing jacketed after is inadvisable, or so I have been told.

 

[cdoc42]

Unclenick, I used to get a "Precision Shooting" journal which I felt was a super valuable resource; I was sorry to see it disappear. There was an article, but I can't remember the author, who advised the high ignition temperature at the throat changed the chemistry of moly to a caustic substance that would eventually erode the bore. In addition, moly was said to be hygroscopic which would lead to rust formation.

Do you recall any of this?

 

[Unclenick]

Don't shoot jacketed bullets to clear bore fouling. IME it mainly just irons the fouling into the bore surface and makes it more difficult to remove. Smith & Wesson and others have warnings against it because of the increase in pressure that occurs in the jacketed rounds. In his Shooting Times article, The Low Down on Lead Fouling, Alan Jones refers to this practice as a "Big No-No". He says:

"How many times have you thought it easier to shoot the lead out with a jacketed bullet? Well, don’t even think about it. In extreme cases, this can cause irreparable damage. I’ve seen revolver barrel throats deformed and thin-walled barrels bulged. Either means a new barrel."
​

Mike38,

This place calls them moly-coated, but they could be wrong. Bear Creek themselves don't say what lubricants are in their coating, but they are dark gray or black in appearance in different photos.