Clark Gator vs. other top name AR's

[Cerick]

First off, who has the Clark Gator and how do you like it? Second, how does their product compare with other top name brands like LMT, Noveske, Daniel defense, White Oak, etc. I know they have a .5 moa guarantee which is obviously great. I'd be using it primarily for target shooting with a chance of 3 gun or varmint.

My dad has a 20 year old colt 1911 with a Clark bowling pin comp job on it and I know it's a great gun but I'm interested in their AR, and how the quality is 20 years later

 

[Cerick]

Anyone?

 

[CTS]

I don't have any first hand experience of the rifle but, I read the list of parts and it should be an excellent shooter.

 

[MagnumWill]

I'm in the same boat- for how good the CCG Gator looks, I thought it would be a little more prolific than it is. Who knows, if no one answers your question I might have an answer for you in a couple months

 

[brian923]

Never herd of it. is it a new player in the ever growing Ar manufacturing line? any links to some pics or info?

 

[CTS]

is it a new player in the ever growing Ar manufacturing line? any links to some pics or info?

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/gatorar.htm
I don't think they are so much an AR manufacturer as they are a Custom gun builder. Could be wrong. I'm pretty sure they are the same Clark Custom who does a lot of 10/22 accessories and custom builds.

 

[brian923]

Wow! Thats a lot of money for an AR. Looks like they use a lot of DPMS parts to build with as well. You could get a rifle just as accurate as that one with a lot less money. Heck, if you bought the holding fixtures, you could buy all those parts and put one together your self and save 300$ if not more. (id bet in more) And have more fun to boot! I like the halosight on that long range rig. Makes it look like a 30" barrel. I bet its a great gun and if you like it, go for it! its just a little pricy for me. I built an 18" barreled .223 AR that will shoot 1/4 inch 5 shot groups for $1k for the total gun. I added a 6.8spc upper for another 675$. And that upper will shoot under .5moa with reloads as well. Im around $2k for the complete .223, the 6.8 upper, 2 scopes and mounts. and both are custom builds by me. Its a lot of fun to put together a real shooter.

 

[CTS]

Thats a lot of money for an AR. Looks like they use a lot of DPMS parts to build with as well.

The starting price for a Krieger 20" stainless barrel is $500. Probably another $300 for that JP trigger and gas block. I spent $250 just for the trigger. Carbon fiber handquards? Sure you could build just about any AR a little cheaper than you can buy it but, that price doesn't look too bad to me. The only DPMS parts I see listed are optional front and rear sights.

 

[5RWill]

Just looked up the price baffels me why an AR barrel is 500$ is it SS410 or SS416? Regardless BCM makes a quality barrel for 300$. Krieger is great but if i'm dropping 500$ on a barrel it better be Gale McMillians last barrel that does the aiming for me. Strange because krieger blanks can be had for 350-400$

They're asking way too much for the parts they're using doesn't even have a quality rail, clark custom carbon fiber handguards Doesn't appeal.

Again that's not a reasonable price for an accurate SPR/DMR. You can build one, buy one, or even go so far as to aquire the actual military version of a mk12 for less or the same price. Also 1-9 twist? Please.

Define a little cheaper? Because i could build a quality 20" rifle for at least 300$ cheaper than what they want for theirs, that will shoot just as well, and have quality parts. Building an AR isn't something that requires "gunsmith" knowledge like knowing how to true an action, add recoil lugs, and rebarrel a rifle.

 

[Cerick]

I was thinking of buying the upper only. I live in NJ and need a "muzzle break" not a flash hider. I like the carbon fiber hand guard as well. I was going to build my own lower as this will be my first AR build. This looks very similar to the rifle Jerry Miculek uses.

 

[5RWill]

See though thats the most overpriced part IMO. There is no statement of what manufacturers BCG they're using, receiver, or anything other than the barrel. The barrel twist is 1:9 which sucks IMO. I would want 1:8 or 1:7 or better on 20" or less. Regardless if you want carbon handguards or not the fact is they're overcharging for every part of that gun. My BCM can be had for that and it's a mk12 clone with a 350$ rail system on it. So it seems a bit strange how much they charge. It's your choice, but i wouldn't buy it. Hell you could buy this. What i own, build your own lower for around 200$ and still be 300$ cheaper. Note: I'm not trying to get you to buy BCM just making a example out of the comparison of price.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SPR-Mk-12-Mod-Bravo-1R-KAC-RAS-p/bcm-urg-mk12-1 ras.htm

If you want it by all means don't let me discourage you. I'm just letting you know there are better options for the money.

 

[CTS]

Define a little cheaper? Because i could build a quality 20" rifle for at least 300$ cheaper than what they want for theirs, that will shoot just as well, and have quality parts.

I agree 100%. When you are buying a Kreiger barrel, you are not only getting quality, you are also paying for the name. I said you can build most any AR cheaper than you could buy it already assembled, some you could build a lot cheaper obviously.

Strange because krieger blanks can be had for 350-400$

So you think $100 is way to much for the machining, installing the barrel extension and fitting a barrel? You can't buy a barrel blank and install it on a rifle you know.
I wouldn't spend that kind of money on any rifle but, I still don't see where it is that bad a price for it if you are looking to spend that kind of money.
I agree that BCM and many others make quality barrels for a lot less money. The question is what degree of qualiity. I know many who think Krieger is one of the finest made.
As for 1:9 twist, While other faster twist barrels may suit specific needs better, the 1:9 is considered the most versatile.
You link to a BCM upper that sells for $1229.00 and yet you say the Clark Custom upper is overpriced at $1145.00? Makes no sense to me.

Upper & Lower Receivers are hard coat anodized per Mil-A 8625A & Teflon Coated Black

Also as I said, I paid $250 for the JP Fire Control Group for my own build and the JP adjustable gas block with top rail retails for $80.

Cerick, I have to ask: does NJ actually require you to have a muzzle brake?

 

[5RWill]

So you think $100 is way to much for the machining, installing the barrel extension and fitting a barrel? You can't buy a barrel blank and install it on a rifle you know.
I wouldn't spend that kind of money on any rifle but, I still don't see where it is that bad a price for it if you are looking to spend that kind of money.
I agree that BCM and many others make quality barrels for a lot less money. The question is what degree of qualiity. I know many who think Krieger is one of the finest made.
As for 1:9 twist, While other faster twist barrels may suit specific needs better, the 1:9 is considered the most versatile.
You link to a BCM upper that sells for $1229.00 and yet you say the Clark Custom upper is overpriced at $1145.00? Makes no sense to me.

While a blank will require some gunsmithing i've never seen a barrel cost 500$, i couldn't stomach paying 500$. Krieger makes great barrels but in no way am i going to drop 500$ on one when my BCM shoots 1/2 MOA for 200$ less with a better twist rate. I never stated krieger's quality wasn't there they are among the best in the industry, but i dislike that 500$ price tag plain and simple.

Explain how you believe 1:9 is the most versatile since it can't stabilize the heavier 75-80gr projectiles but 1:8 can and will also stabilize the lighter bullets. It doesn't work both ways.

So you think that an upper with no quality parts listed with cheap carbon handguards @ 1145$ isn't over priced when compared to a BCM mk12 mod 1 with a 350$ rail system on it, ionbond coated barrel, and the barrel is SS410. Truth be told idk what steel the krieger is. The point is yet again that it's overpriced. Thats what i was pointing out with the BCM upper, it is in the same price range almost with a 350$ rail system, carbon handguards aren't 350$. Unless your buying PRI which isn't carbon and is still a rail system to some extent.

 

[CTS]

While a blank will require some gunsmithing i've never seen a barrel cost 500$, i couldn't stomach paying 500$.

I guess this one's out of the question then:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/63...-dcm-contour-1-in-77-twist-20-stainless-steel

Explain how you believe 1:9 is the most versatile since it can't stabilize the heavier 75-80gr projectiles but 1:8 can and will also stabilize the lighter bullets.

I never said anything about what "I Believe". 1:9 is considered by the industry to be the most versatile. Versatile you know, cause it will shoot a larger variety or rounds from 52gr up to 69gr. It covers most of what you can by off the shelf fairly well. Not necessarily the best for a given application but, it is billed as a either a varmint rifle or HBAR after all.

So you think that an upper with no quality parts listed with cheap carbon handguards @ 1145$ isn't over priced when compared to a BCM mk12 mod 1 with a 350$ rail system on it, ionbond coated barrel, and the barrel is SS410. Truth be told idk what steel the krieger is. The point is yet again that it's overpriced.

What are you going to use a $350 dollar rail system on 20" HBAR or a varmint rifle for? Just because Clarke didn't list the parts used doesn't mean that they are of any lesser quality. I have dealt with Clarke Custom before and I can attest to the quality of any of their parts I have purchased. I have no reason to believe the quality isn't there. I like BCM, I even used some of their parts in a couple of my builds but that doesn't take anything away from the Clark Custom either.

 

[5RWill]

Yes for me that 534$ krieger is out of the question.

What would i use a rail for? For me personally NV, weapon light etc. Night hunting is fun Also the gun listed in the link is only .750 (same as my mk12) it's not entirely that heavy. I agree it wouldn't be that practical to have a rail on a .920 barrel.

For the OP idk. Assuming quality is all the same it's still overpriced. Thats all i'm pointing out, nothing less. That upper should be in the 800-900$ range. I dislike the fact they don't list the manufacturer of the parts, as reliability is a quality i look for in an AR. It doesn't discredit Clarke custom's at all. It probably is a great shooter no doubt. But for the money you could have the same accuracy and have some money for optics or ammo. I mean look at WOA for pete's sake. He could save damn near 600$ for initially the same upper, minus an adjustable gas block, and a muzzle brake. Which i'm not sure of the reason for the adjustable gas block unless he is planning on shooting suppressed.

 

[CTS]

You may be right about it being over priced. To me they the Clark and the BCM are both more than I'd pay. As for weapons light, hunting at night is the only reason I see for one and then I'd mount it on top of the scope but, that is just personal preference.

Also the gun listed in the link is only .750 (same as my mk12) it's not entirely that heavy. I agree it wouldn't be that practical to have a rail on a .920 barrel.

I supplied that link. Not sure if it was the exact model the OP was looking at. They listed the one shown, the HBAR and the Varmint model.

 

[5RWill]

Don't forget about NV sure day/night systems are through the roof expensive but a NV optic can be had at a reasonable price depending on your budget.

 

[CTS]

Don't forget about NV sure day/night systems are through the roof expensive but a NV optic can be had at a reasonable price depending on your budget.

can you give me an example? I'm not really familiar with NV. Back when I was in the military the NV optics we had were crap. I know they have come a long way since then.

 

[5RWill]

Well this will really fall into your budget for Night Vision. Quality Day/Night systems like this TNVC BNS are around 8 grand.

http://www.tnvc.com/shop/bns-boresighted-night-sight-gen3-pinnacle-clip-on-weapon-sight/

Then their highest NV scope is 1/2 the price at 4 grand and the lowest at 2.

Granted they are all gen 3, so it's going to be pricey either way. I was looking at ATN corp and was going to split the price with my father on the Day/night system (it was 3000$) come to find that ATN products are spotty and not really worth the hassle. So the NV/Thermal market is expensive as hell. So it depends on your desired budget. I believe the PVS-14 can be had for around 1500$ if you shop around but thats a monocular for your eye not a weapon sight. It would work well if you had the Aimpoint Micro T-1 for instance.

My father is actually a tight person when it comes to money but if it involves getting rid of beavers/coyotes. Between the levee and the farm we have plenty of nuisance animals. He's all for it. To him taking out a beaver is potentially saving 10 acres of beans at 40 bushels an acre and 12-16$ a bushel it pays for itself essentially in his mind i guess. Same goes for coyotes we lost 3 calves over christmas break, with meat prices being where they are, thats essentially 3000$ lost right there. We haven't done it yet but if i ever get into med school, get out, and become successful, i'm going to surprise him with an AR suppressed and NV ready to go, hehe.

Indeed they've come along way but civilians are getting the short end of the stick IMO.

IIRC
Gen 1 was developed during 40s-50s
Gen 2 developed in 60-70s
Gen 3 in the 90s
Gen 4 is what the military uses right now.


Gen 1 for good use tends to require a great deal of illumination at night such as a full moon. Hell on a full moon and no clouds you can about see with regular eye sight. Gen 3 for comparison is a substantial improvement.

Here's some videos coudn't find a comparison of all TNVC.

Gen 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaJCbEHXb5Q

Gen 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dblEaK2JDSM

Gen 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qHtaQagH40

 

[CTS]

Ouch! Not in this lifetime.