CitiFinancial Merchant Services Won't Serve FFL's
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
An outrage from Citigroup
http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704
http://www.nssf.org/share/images/letter.jpg
The NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) just released the
following notice.
================================
Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process
any credit card transactions between federally licensed firearms
retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will
severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to
military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.
The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be
firearms distributor CDNN Sports Inc.
"We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a
June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were
being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction,"
said Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although
perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be
processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very
frightening."
To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp.,
please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor
Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.
-------------------------
This is an abomination.
http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704
http://www.nssf.org/share/images/letter.jpg
The NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) just released the
following notice.
================================
Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process
any credit card transactions between federally licensed firearms
retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will
severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to
military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.
The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be
firearms distributor CDNN Sports Inc.
"We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a
June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were
being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction,"
said Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although
perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be
processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very
frightening."
To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp.,
please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor
Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.
-------------------------
This is an abomination.
Bazooka Joe71
New member
Three groups of people who definately don't need firearms.
Classy move guys...Classy.
I knew the bankers hated the 2nd amendment but WOW. Just think about the level of arrogance to think they can get away with this. While it's true that the bankers run the world but when they openly act like they do and don't even sugar coat it, it's a little unusual.
We need an 800 number to get these traitors' attention. Here's First Data's: 800 735-3362
Citi Merchant Services Provided by First Data Merchant Services Corporation Customer Service: 888-299-4391
We need an 800 number to get these traitors' attention. Here's First Data's: 800 735-3362
Citi Merchant Services Provided by First Data Merchant Services Corporation Customer Service: 888-299-4391
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My guess, just based upon what I've seen here and what I know of the industry, is that this is not some conspiratorial anti-gun move, but rather a monumental blunder by Citi and First Data. Bankcard associations and processors used to have exclusions as to certain classes of goods & services, but as far as I am aware most have been dropped except for those which are patently illegal. Sounds like Citi and FDMS didn't do their homework before making the determination that CDNN's activities were illegal and dropped them based upon that (erroneous) determination. Not only do I think CDNN may have a case against Citi and FDMS for breach, but the NRA (should they decide to get involved), is a major affinity group any card association (I think they're currently with Visa) and could weild some serious leverage with the association against Citi and FDMS.
The reason is noted in the form they sent to cdnn I think. I believe it was caused by charge backs for firearms threw cdnn. Why would they all of a sudden hold 75 grand of cdnn's funds otherwise.
If say someone ordered 50 grand in items from cdnn and some other companys threw a dealer and used their citi card. Then picked some of the items up legally threw a licensed dealer and after the back ground checks and paper work went threw. Then they did a charge back on all of the firearms sticking cdnn and a few others for many thousands of dollars.
then citi lets someone do all the charge backs and collect their $50 or so for each chargeback and then maybe the guy keeps saying he has fixed it and just charge it again because it was a simple mistake. Then low and behold he charges everything back also so citi get more money.
so lets say the company like cdnn reports it to the ATF as stolen firearms and during the investigation citi is contacted and as the excuse the buyer used is he never ever did any transactions. But with him signing the credit card statements to a certain dealer and filling out the 4473's he may be in trouble with the feds if thats what happened.
I think alot more will come out later. just a guess.
If say someone ordered 50 grand in items from cdnn and some other companys threw a dealer and used their citi card. Then picked some of the items up legally threw a licensed dealer and after the back ground checks and paper work went threw. Then they did a charge back on all of the firearms sticking cdnn and a few others for many thousands of dollars.
then citi lets someone do all the charge backs and collect their $50 or so for each chargeback and then maybe the guy keeps saying he has fixed it and just charge it again because it was a simple mistake. Then low and behold he charges everything back also so citi get more money.
so lets say the company like cdnn reports it to the ATF as stolen firearms and during the investigation citi is contacted and as the excuse the buyer used is he never ever did any transactions. But with him signing the credit card statements to a certain dealer and filling out the 4473's he may be in trouble with the feds if thats what happened.
I think alot more will come out later. just a guess.
come on zak you give me more credit than I deserve.
Its just a good assumption if you read between the lines of the letter.
Are they going to cancel and hold funds for every other dealer for six months now? I could see some upset folks unless they are singling out cdnn or are they just the first? Are they going to sieze funds from every dealer who has a citi machine? which would be a big % of them.
Should be interesting talk at the shot show in a few weeks? I will ask cdnn if they are at the shot show, but not sure if they do it anymore.
Its just a good assumption if you read between the lines of the letter.
Are they going to cancel and hold funds for every other dealer for six months now? I could see some upset folks unless they are singling out cdnn or are they just the first? Are they going to sieze funds from every dealer who has a citi machine? which would be a big % of them.
Should be interesting talk at the shot show in a few weeks? I will ask cdnn if they are at the shot show, but not sure if they do it anymore.
Sounds like an opportunity for someone gun friendly to step in and get a lot of FFL business clearing credit cards, huh?
As to legality or morality or whatever.. same thing as pharmacists that refuse to fill perfectly legal prescriptions on moral grounds, no?
If a company refuses to do this business, vote with your dollar and it won't be a problem anymore.
As to legality or morality or whatever.. same thing as pharmacists that refuse to fill perfectly legal prescriptions on moral grounds, no?
If a company refuses to do this business, vote with your dollar and it won't be a problem anymore.
Bazooka Joe71
New member
Touche!
johnsonmd1
New member
I'm adding on to this thread, what banks/financial institutions are gun friendly or even neutral? I have a few accounts with Wachovia still (and I carry inside the bank until told not to, and then I shall close all accounts), but if a bank is at least neutral I'd be willing to switch things over.
jc121 -
As I understand it, creation of the reserve on termination of the merchant's account is a standard contractual term for the acquiring bank (merchant's side of the transaction) and the processor - it protects them in the event of post-termination chargebacks to the merchant's account. Since the consumer gets a monthly statement, it could be months after a charge is made for the consumer to notice and dispute a charge, the issuing bank (consumer's side of the transaction) to contact and provide the merchant and acquiring bank time to respond and defend, and have the acquiring bank finally issue a chargeback against the merchant account. I don't think any reading between the lines is necessary here - its stated quite clearly in the letter and it seems to be an issue of legality (which Citi and FDMS got wrong). The bankcard associations (Visa, MC, Amex, Discover, Diners, etc.) have rules for member banks and processors prohibiting the processing of illegal transactions, which if violated, can get the bank or processor fined or jeopardize their membership in the association.
As I understand it, creation of the reserve on termination of the merchant's account is a standard contractual term for the acquiring bank (merchant's side of the transaction) and the processor - it protects them in the event of post-termination chargebacks to the merchant's account. Since the consumer gets a monthly statement, it could be months after a charge is made for the consumer to notice and dispute a charge, the issuing bank (consumer's side of the transaction) to contact and provide the merchant and acquiring bank time to respond and defend, and have the acquiring bank finally issue a chargeback against the merchant account. I don't think any reading between the lines is necessary here - its stated quite clearly in the letter and it seems to be an issue of legality (which Citi and FDMS got wrong). The bankcard associations (Visa, MC, Amex, Discover, Diners, etc.) have rules for member banks and processors prohibiting the processing of illegal transactions, which if violated, can get the bank or processor fined or jeopardize their membership in the association.