reynolds357
New member
I would generally expect a 22" 270 to be 150 fps slower than a 24". Velocity greatly depends on barrel quality. Keep in mind that bullet is about as aerodynamic as a school bus.
chronograph a .270 130 grain Remington?
- Thread starter jersey joe
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reynolds357
New member
26" is ideal.
Huh? Of course MV directly effects that.
You should absolutely confirm it at the range, but physics is physics, and the math doesn't change. Issac Newton will not be denied. You can absolutely run the numbers and predict with quite a bit of accuracy what ranges the hash marks will line up.
Any good ballistics program will account for all of them.
Having good average velocity from a chronograph definitely makes it easier, but as the OP did, you can work out a reasonably accurate muzzle velocity by working backwards from your observed trajectory. From this you can work out a complete trajectory, and figure out based on the spacing of the hash marks on your BDC scope what the ranges work out to.
Then you go out and confirm.
reynolds357
New member
Yep, a good ballistics program is exceptionally efficient at calculating dope.
FrankenMauser
New member
Eh?
Did you add an extra digit there?
That's quite extreme, in my experience.
reynolds357
New member
Not extreme for a 270 win. They fall off horrendously from 24" to 22".
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Ammo manufactures have to deal with chamber pressures in all types of weaponry that may or may not meet SAAMI chamber industry standards. So that tells we American shooters can never buy cartridge/s that exceed SAAMI {safety}pressures. Although.
with a little experimentation? _ maybe~just maybe a home-loader can attain that 3200 fps velocity factor with their 130 gr hand load?__
with a little experimentation? _ maybe~just maybe a home-loader can attain that 3200 fps velocity factor with their 130 gr hand load?__
reynolds357
New member
3200 is Pretty easy to do with a lapped 26" barrel.Ammo manufactures have to deal with chamber pressures in all types of weaponry that may or may not meet SAAMI chamber industry standards. So that tells we American shooters can never buy cartridge/s that exceed SAAMI {safety}pressures. Although.
with a little experimentation? _ maybe~just maybe a home-loader can attain that 3200 fps velocity factor with their 130 gr hand load?__
FrankenMauser
New member
Are your barrel's bore, groove and chamber dimensions plus powder, primer and case lots, the same as those used to develop the load data you reference?
If not, there'll be a wide range of velocity numbers. Several of us shooting the same rifle and ammo will get different average velocities. Sometimes over 50 fps.
If not, there'll be a wide range of velocity numbers. Several of us shooting the same rifle and ammo will get different average velocities. Sometimes over 50 fps.
SAAMI does it with 24" barrels at normal maximum pressure of 65,000 psi.
reynolds357
New member
Yep, confirms its real easy with a 26.
reynolds357
New member
"In my experience shooting factory loads they are usually at least 100 fps slower than advertised in my rifles. Sometimes more."
That's true. A few years back I ran a test of some Winchester 180 gr.Power Point ammo over a chronograph. I ran three shots each from 22", 24" and 26" barrel and the results were interesting. The 22" rifle did almost exactly 2600 FPS, the 24" barrel 2635 FPS and the 26" barrel 2710 FPS. The only rifle that came close to advertised velocity was from the 26" Barreled Ruger #1B.
FWIW, I've used the "sight in 3" high at 100 yards" for so long and it has always worked just fine for me. I shoot either the 150 gr. Sierra Game King or Nosler Partition from my .270 sighted in that way and a hold center chest has always brought home the venison for me out past 250/300 yards.
Paul B.
That's true. A few years back I ran a test of some Winchester 180 gr.Power Point ammo over a chronograph. I ran three shots each from 22", 24" and 26" barrel and the results were interesting. The 22" rifle did almost exactly 2600 FPS, the 24" barrel 2635 FPS and the 26" barrel 2710 FPS. The only rifle that came close to advertised velocity was from the 26" Barreled Ruger #1B.
FWIW, I've used the "sight in 3" high at 100 yards" for so long and it has always worked just fine for me. I shoot either the 150 gr. Sierra Game King or Nosler Partition from my .270 sighted in that way and a hold center chest has always brought home the venison for me out past 250/300 yards.
Paul B.
Pathfinder45
New member
Referring back to your original post, Jersey Joe, A few things come to my mind:
It seems that your rifle shoots pretty well for you with factory-loaded Remington CorLokt ammo. If that's what you will continue to use, then forget about numbers in the books, computer programs, or even chronograph results. It is what it is; live with it and trouble your mind no further. However, there is one important consideration, and that is to go out and verify your actual trajectory with the rifle zeroed at the distance of your choice and worry no more about the way things are supposed to be. It is what it is.
If that's not good enough for you, you could try some of the more premium lines of ammo, or, if you are cut out for it, take up hand-loading your ammo.
Reloading/handloading, .......umm,.... it's not for everyone, but it works for me.
You are probably getting less than 2900 fps with your factory ammo. But if the accuracy is good, then so what? Sure, your 22" barrel could be safely handloaded using optimal powders to get 3100 fps using 130 grain bullets. Maybe even a bit more; but will it be as accurate? Ahh, the quest for the perfect load begins! But where will it end? Maybe never.
I began reloading for the 270 Winchester back in 1973 and still do so. I have a magic recipe for my current 270, but, being hopelessly experimental, I am still dabbling with different brands and weights of bullets and a wide range of powders....There is no end to it except the quest itself.
It's like the prospector who strikes a good gold find.....delighted for the moment, he soon sells it to a real mining outfit, and with a fresh grubstake, continues his quest for the real Eldorado. He's no miner; he's a prospector!
You could just go buy a box of shells, go deer hunting, forget all this non-sense, and bring home some venison. Ignorance really can be bliss. But if you open Pandora's box, you'll find yourself laying awake some nights thinking of some innovative combination of components that you simply must put to the test. As the disease progresses, you'll find that it turns around and it actually can help you to fall asleep if you just stop thinking about what you are obligated to do this week, and simply focus on the loads you will prepare for your next opportunity to shoot. See; have I not warned you?
It seems that your rifle shoots pretty well for you with factory-loaded Remington CorLokt ammo. If that's what you will continue to use, then forget about numbers in the books, computer programs, or even chronograph results. It is what it is; live with it and trouble your mind no further. However, there is one important consideration, and that is to go out and verify your actual trajectory with the rifle zeroed at the distance of your choice and worry no more about the way things are supposed to be. It is what it is.
If that's not good enough for you, you could try some of the more premium lines of ammo, or, if you are cut out for it, take up hand-loading your ammo.
Reloading/handloading, .......umm,.... it's not for everyone, but it works for me.
You are probably getting less than 2900 fps with your factory ammo. But if the accuracy is good, then so what? Sure, your 22" barrel could be safely handloaded using optimal powders to get 3100 fps using 130 grain bullets. Maybe even a bit more; but will it be as accurate? Ahh, the quest for the perfect load begins! But where will it end? Maybe never.
I began reloading for the 270 Winchester back in 1973 and still do so. I have a magic recipe for my current 270, but, being hopelessly experimental, I am still dabbling with different brands and weights of bullets and a wide range of powders....There is no end to it except the quest itself.
It's like the prospector who strikes a good gold find.....delighted for the moment, he soon sells it to a real mining outfit, and with a fresh grubstake, continues his quest for the real Eldorado. He's no miner; he's a prospector!
You could just go buy a box of shells, go deer hunting, forget all this non-sense, and bring home some venison. Ignorance really can be bliss. But if you open Pandora's box, you'll find yourself laying awake some nights thinking of some innovative combination of components that you simply must put to the test. As the disease progresses, you'll find that it turns around and it actually can help you to fall asleep if you just stop thinking about what you are obligated to do this week, and simply focus on the loads you will prepare for your next opportunity to shoot. See; have I not warned you?
stagpanther
New member
Gotta call em like I see em--IMO Remmie makes the worst factory ammo of any US manufacturer in my experience. Probably has more to do with quality control than the bullets themselves--though as a hand-loader I generally steer away from their brass as well. They make only one product that's of any interest to me--and that's their golden saber pistol bullets--they remain high quality.
All that said--last year on a whim I bought several off the shelf .270 win factory budget cartridges just to see how they compared; Hornady's American whitetail, winchester's extreme point, remmie's core lokt and federal's power shok. They all did well enough out to 300 yds in target shots that I think any of them would drop a deer--American Whitetail and Winnie's extreme points taking top honors for consistency and accuracy.
Lucky for the OP I have some of the remmie stuff left over and have no interest in using it in the woods--so I'll oblige him next time I'm out with my labradar shooting out of my Ruger American.
All that said--last year on a whim I bought several off the shelf .270 win factory budget cartridges just to see how they compared; Hornady's American whitetail, winchester's extreme point, remmie's core lokt and federal's power shok. They all did well enough out to 300 yds in target shots that I think any of them would drop a deer--American Whitetail and Winnie's extreme points taking top honors for consistency and accuracy.
Lucky for the OP I have some of the remmie stuff left over and have no interest in using it in the woods--so I'll oblige him next time I'm out with my labradar shooting out of my Ruger American.
Maybe around 100f/sec, if one was using a very slow powder .... something in a middling burn rate, might be as little as 25-50 f/sec, all else being equal ..... I duuno what Remington is using for a propellant in that load...... I'd guess something mid-range and forgiving and CHEAP.
Pathfinder45
New member
The highest velocity within safe pressure limits
Since I have loaded the 270 for decades, I have learned a little more about it than most other calibers, though there is always more to learn. For quite a while now, I have narrowed the field of bullet weights down to just 3, i.e., 130 grain, 140 grain, and 150 grain. I've shot other weights, but I feel that I lack sufficient experience with those others to have anything to say authoritatively.
That being said, I've shot plenty of ammo in the three most common weights, some factory ammo, but probably 95% handloads. I've carefully danced on that red-line and occasionally put just one foot slightly over to find the limits of safety. The conclusions that I have come to seem to indicate that with optimum propellants, I can expect to achieve the following velocities from my 24" barreled model 70 Winchester:
These would be maximum loads using optimal powders; with sub-optimal powders, excessive pressures would manifest their symptoms before these velocities could be reached. With a 22" barrel, these figures should be reduced by a full 100 fps. My experiments were conducted using a chronograph, which you really don't need if you are willing to stay away from maximum loads. Some rifles will exhibit excess pressures at slower speeds no matter what you try.
I have gone over these figures at times.... Most notable was when I was getting 3,285 fps with 140 grain bullets. All seemed well and good; the cases and primers looked right, no sticky bolt-lift, etc. so I loaded the cases again with the same recipe and apparently the same results,....until I went to load them a third time and found that half of the cases took the fresh primers awfully easy. I found that I could fully seat new primers on several of these cases with my bare hands. The conclusion I reached is that the pressure was way too high and that the first indication was not loose primer pockets, but rather, it was the velocity itself.
Factory ammo is made to be safe in every rifle of that caliber. Thus, it usually only matches their listed velocity in those few rifles with minimum chamber and bore specs. Each rifle is at least a little different than the next. My brother had a 270 with the barrel cut to 20" for a saddle scabbard. His rifle was always around 200 fps faster than my 24" barrel because of minimal chamber dimensions. Loads that were completely safe in my rifle were way over-pressure in his. Factory loads did everything they were supposed to do, in his rifle only, but not mine.
Since I have loaded the 270 for decades, I have learned a little more about it than most other calibers, though there is always more to learn. For quite a while now, I have narrowed the field of bullet weights down to just 3, i.e., 130 grain, 140 grain, and 150 grain. I've shot other weights, but I feel that I lack sufficient experience with those others to have anything to say authoritatively.
That being said, I've shot plenty of ammo in the three most common weights, some factory ammo, but probably 95% handloads. I've carefully danced on that red-line and occasionally put just one foot slightly over to find the limits of safety. The conclusions that I have come to seem to indicate that with optimum propellants, I can expect to achieve the following velocities from my 24" barreled model 70 Winchester:
- 130 grain bullets ..................3,200 fps.
- 140 grain bullets ..................3,100 fps.
- 150 grain bullets ..................3,000 fps.
These would be maximum loads using optimal powders; with sub-optimal powders, excessive pressures would manifest their symptoms before these velocities could be reached. With a 22" barrel, these figures should be reduced by a full 100 fps. My experiments were conducted using a chronograph, which you really don't need if you are willing to stay away from maximum loads. Some rifles will exhibit excess pressures at slower speeds no matter what you try.
I have gone over these figures at times.... Most notable was when I was getting 3,285 fps with 140 grain bullets. All seemed well and good; the cases and primers looked right, no sticky bolt-lift, etc. so I loaded the cases again with the same recipe and apparently the same results,....until I went to load them a third time and found that half of the cases took the fresh primers awfully easy. I found that I could fully seat new primers on several of these cases with my bare hands. The conclusion I reached is that the pressure was way too high and that the first indication was not loose primer pockets, but rather, it was the velocity itself.
Factory ammo is made to be safe in every rifle of that caliber. Thus, it usually only matches their listed velocity in those few rifles with minimum chamber and bore specs. Each rifle is at least a little different than the next. My brother had a 270 with the barrel cut to 20" for a saddle scabbard. His rifle was always around 200 fps faster than my 24" barrel because of minimal chamber dimensions. Loads that were completely safe in my rifle were way over-pressure in his. Factory loads did everything they were supposed to do, in his rifle only, but not mine.
stagpanther
New member
Just got back--conditions were actually quite good for winter in Maine--50 degrees and very humid. Here's what I got for the last 8 130 corelokt cartridges I had out of my ruger American with 22" barrel. No ways near as good as the Hornady or Winchester ammo, though I'd probably shoot it "minute of deer" out to 150 yds or so, but I personally wouldn't use it much past that with confidence.
