Cheese-grater pistols

[Skans]

Cheese-grater guns; the ones that have the "tactical" rail milled into the underside of the frame. I don't like them!

At first, I thought "no big deal - it's just an option". But, I see more and more guns being made with no option for the beautiful smooth frame guns without the clunky rail.

The point of my post is NOT to discuss the usefulness of rail mounted lasers or flashlights. This has been done! Some want them; others don't. However, there must be a better way of designing an unobtrusive frame mount for flashlights, lasers etc. for those who want them. Something retractable perhaps; something designed with one neatly milled groove (like a sight ramp groove) that can be filled with an insert when not in use.

I'd bet that the first gun maker that can figure this out will quickly make all of those cheese grater guns as obsolete as a 45 spindle adapter (think record turntable, not 1911's). I wish there was a way to get gun manufactures see this. Thoughts?

 

[Cheapshooter]

The rails belong on modern designs. Especially the new "Tupperware" guns. If you don't want them, stick to the many 1911 variants, Sigs that don't have the rail, Beretta 92, many don't have rails, CZ75's, and used S&W's
Still lots of choices without rails to choose from.
For me, they don't make any difference even though I don't use them to hang anything on my pistols.

 

[bac1023]

I don't and won't own a single metal framed pistol with a rail. On polymers, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Knightsofnee]

I think the cheese graters are a fad- just like the quad rails that were the thing on ARs a few years ago. Then somebody invented Key-mod and somebody else invented M-Lok and everybody jumped all over them. Now no high speed, low drag operator type would be caught dead with a quad rail. On the other hand the HK VP9 (the Ju-87 Stuka of the pistol world), seems to need it's rail in order to match it's...idiom.

 

[TunnelRat]

I think the cheese graters are a fad- just like the quad rails that were the thing on ARs a few years ago.

They've been around a long time to just be a "fad".

On the other hand the HK VP9 (the Ju-87 Stuka of the pistol world), seems to need it's rail in order to match it's...idiom.

I literally have no idea what is meant by this. How does the rail on the VP9 make it any more of a Stuka (for that matter, what is that metaphor supposed to mean?) than any other pistol with a picatinny rail?

However, there must be a better way of designing an unobtrusive frame mount for flashlights, lasers etc. for those who want them.

I guess I fail to see how a rail is "obtrusive". Why is your hand out by the muzzle on a pistol?

Something retractable perhaps; something designed with one neatly milled groove (like a sight ramp groove) that can be filled with an insert when not in use.

Glock uses one single groove. Also, what would filling the groove accomplish? The front end would still be blocky, it just wouldn't have a slight gap.

I'd bet that the first gun maker that can figure this out will quickly make all of those cheese grater guns as obsolete as a 45 spindle adapter (think record turntable, not 1911's).

I wouldn't bet on it. It may be something that bothers you and a select group personally, and hey it's your right to like different aesthetics, but I seriously doubt it really is a major concern of any gunmaker currently.

I wish there was a way to get gun manufactures see this. Thoughts?

Start a change.org petition.

 

[MJN77]

Of the pistols I own, two have rails on them. Never bothered me one way or the other. Only "problem" I had was trying to find a holster for my Sig p226 mk25, as the rail is different than the "standard" railed p226. Like has been said, if you don't like guns with rails, don't buy guns with the rails. Seems simple to me.

 

[LockedBreech]

Why wouldn't there be rails when the rail-mounted light is such a major improvement over an off-hand light?

 

[Big Shrek]

Tell ya what, I dare ANYONE to watch the Crimson Trace training video and not want a rail & laser after.

Of course there are grip-mounts & whatnot, but nothing is quite as easy as a rail for mounting one.

That being said, I prefer Viridian lasers (green) for daylight and night use...
and that time inbetween...

Ever walked outside at dusk and been 35 yards from a 'yote,
but due to the bad light conditions not quite sure where you were aiming??
Laser takes the question of where out of it...place the dot, make the shot.

You use your irons to aim, then use the dot to be Precise...
of course it helps to have set the aiming point properly beforehand

 

[O4L]

Just an FYI....Crimson Trace now makes a green laser.

 

[9x18_Walther]

I think rails are great for mounting flashlights. If anyone owns a USP, you'll know the struggles you face with getting the rail adapter and/or the old, outdated L3/Insight UTL weaponlight that fits the HK proprietary rail.

My thoughts on lasers? They are not a bad idea. Combine bad vision with cross-dominance and lasers start to seem attractive to me. In my opinion, you should be point shooting and using the iron sights before considering the laser however.

The only brand I trust is Crimson Trace or SureFire.

Using the rail for the laser? This is where my opinion is a bit different than others. I think lasers are great when you use the Crimson Trace products that are tailored to the handgun you are using. The generic Crimson Trace rail-mounted lasers and similar products like the SureFire X400 introduce too much parallax in my opinion due to the alignment with the bore.

My thoughts on rails? Any quality, strong rail is going to look like a Weaver/Picatinny/NATO Accessory Rail. Any other design will have weaknesses in keeping accessories attached and aligned correctly.

IMHO, rails look okay on newer handguns but leave them off a 1911. Nothing irks me more than big roll-marks and a rail on a otherwise nice looking TRP. The rail looks stupid on a VP9, but okay on a PPQ. Really depends on how it meshes with the pistol design.

Then again, if you are an elite operator design and appearance is irrelevant.

 

[bac1023]

Tell ya what, I dare ANYONE to watch the Crimson Trace training video and not want a rail & laser after.

That's quite a bold statement. Why assume everyone wants a laser?

I'm not sure I'd take one for free.

 

[ZEBRARANGER]

A few years ago when Beretta came out with the 90-Two, they incorporated a removable rail cover like this one on my .40. One problem with this is that it makes for fitting in a holster impossible unless the holster is made for the cover being attached.

 

[ttarp]

The Keymod and M-lok designs were driven in part by a desire to cut down on weight, not as much of an issue with a pistol, but I do think a smaller more streamlined(unobtrusive) approach would certainly improve the aesthetics and also trim down some unnecessary bulk on the front end.

In other words, I think the op has a good idea, but unfortunately I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[marine6680]

For the most part, rails don't bother me...

But there are some pistol designs that I prefer didn't have a rail. Usually ones that were around before the rail, and now one is tacked on. It's an aesthetic thing for me.

Ones like the 1911, and Sig 226... I like them better smooth and rail less...

At least most of the 226s have the "Sig rail", which is rounded and blends better.

I have seen good and bad implementation of rails in poly pistols as well... I am not a fan of the bull nose look of the new Sig 320.

Though I do like it on a CZ SP-01... Go figure...


There were designs in the past that used proprietary rail systems that were slicker... You needed an adapter to mount anything, but you didn't have the rail look when you were not using lights and other accessories.

HK and Walther did this a good bit not long back.

These designs were usually panned by those who actually used (or wanted to) the rails.

 

[drobs]

Red Dots on Semi-Autos are the new hot thing.


Not mine but I wouldn't kick it out of bed...

 

[JDBerg]

Tell ya what, I dare ANYONE to watch the Crimson Trace training video and not want a rail & laser after.

I see the guys with the CT equipped guns who come out to the range once a year for their birthday and their targets still look like swiss cheese. If the gun impacts where you aim it and the rest of your fundamentals are solid, a CT can't hurt your shooting, otherwise it won't help it.

 

[TunnelRat]

^ I too personally have seen lasers become a crutch for poor shooting fundamentals. Yes you see on the target where the bullet should go, but you still have to have the trigger management to get a clean break and maintain that alignment or the shot isn't going to hit that spot anyway. In addition you need to put effort into zeroing the laser, and not everyone is diligent there.

I see a lot of folks spend time hunting for the dot on the target when they're shooting at distances where honestly you could point shoot effectively, not to mention just using a front sight focus with iron sights. Many people extol the virtues of laser at night. I want a light to be able to identify my target, and in that case it becomes more similar to daylight shooting where again the laser dot isn't always easy to pick up.

 

[Fishbed77]

Just go with a modern pistol that has a Universal Rail instead of the "cheese grater" Picatinny Rail. Plenty of options out there: almost all Glocks, P99s, Rugers, etc.

 

[rt11002003]

A Hammerli Xesse has two rail type mounts. One milled on top like a Weaver, but very narrow; I have no idea what would fit it. The other is on the bottom, a milled grove with a filler when not in use. It can be used for barrel weights, or mounting a bridge for options.

Some rails do not LOOK good on some guns, purely personal tastes. I like the looks of rails on some of my guns, not on others. The only bottom rail I've used refularly is on a Hammerli for weights, or for mounting a bridge for optics which was also grooved allowing weights to be used too.

I prefer the CT gun specific laser.

Thankfully, there's a variety of almost everything out there allowing most of us to be reasonably satisfied.

 

[DA/SA Fan]

There are some that don't look too bad. Some of the Sigs. My SAR K2 .45. There are others that really are in your face though like the Witness Steel. Anybody see the new Desert Eagles? Endless rails top and bottom. Gonna have to look used by the time I'm ready for one.