CCW at the office - practically speaking

[45King]

Jim K.
Hey, the first rule of gunfighting is "have a gun". The handgun is a firearm meant to be worn, not carried, and is therefore ideal for sudden unexpected hostile encounters. It's not a safe world out there, which is why many of us own guns.

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Regards, Richard

 

[Sackett]

I use an IWB Blade Tech "Ultimate Concealment Holster" in Kydex to carry a Glock 26 (9mm). Holster behind the right hip and shirt tucked between the belt and the holster. Very comfortable and secure. Have worn it on several long drives (over 100 miles) and have worn it in a couple of short runs - up to 1/2 mile with no problems. Carrying with an 1.5" black belt is not noticable. However with a different colored belt or width, the black "J" hook is noticable. I am 6'4" and weigh 165-170.

 

[James K]

Hi 45King. I agree to a point, but there are real threats and theoretical threats - else you would carry a .50 HB M2 in each hand every hour of the day, and wear 360 degree body armor to boot. And the first rule of concealed carry is concealment; I have known cops who almost got killed by other cops because someone saw the gun and panicked. Of course the office environment does affect things. It would only take one nervous or anti-gun type to see the gun, claim to feel threatened and file suit against the company. The simple realistic fact is that there are tradeoffs on concealed carry. Maybe I am wrong, but a lot of the people discussing CCW seem to be youngsters raised on violent TV, who exaggerate the real danger. I was a plainclothes deputy for about 10 years. In that time, I drew a gun once, displayed a gun once, and told a man I was armed once. I never fired a shot. (My carry gun was a .38 Chiefs Special.) Today, between some real threat and the media exaggeration, young people, including cops (also raised on TV), tend to shoot first and think later. (41 shots in an unarmed man?!) And they forget about the consequences of pulling that trigger. I will guarantee that the day you pop a cap on another human being will be the absolutely worst day in your life, a day you will wish never happened, and that is if you are licensed, the late one is public enemy number one, and self defense is unquestionable. Handcuffs itch!

 

[Bullmoose]

I can't understand the question about why carrying in the office is deemed necessary. Where did we get the expression 'go postal'? We have had several high profile shootings at companies here in Southern CA and across the country. I would bet that besides your home the workplace is probably the most likely place to get shot. Between disgruntaled employess and unhappy customers there are enough crazies looking for vengence that it is a very real threat. Granted, most of us can carry for a lifetime and never need to defend ourselves, but the threat is there.
Remember that we as good guys do not get to pick the time or place so the only resonable action when one decides to carry is to carry 100% of the time whereever possible. Jim

 

[Willy]

If you have your own office with a door and spend your time in it, a quick access gun box (push button combination) in a desk drawer could be an option. Big gun and little gun come to work in car. Big gun goes in box, little gun stays on you for lunch, bathroom breaks, ect. Close your door when transfering big gun to person or to box. That way if you get any advance warning, you could be more well armed.

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Jim, I confess I'm a little surprised at your 'power kick' remark. However, we don't know each other, so I'll grant that that may be a factor for some.

For myself, this is an extremely deliberate choice / decision. With our current company personnel manual, it prohibits 'unauthorized weapons'. I may have an opportunity to diplomatically change that to 'illegal weapons', but we'll see. If I can't change it, I'll have to weigh my options carefully.

I'm an officer with the company. We've never had an incident of violence at the firm. But, as your own stories convey, such incidents are quite rare for most of us, and therefore usually quite a surprise. If I train, acquire the legal permit, and acquire the right firearm(s) and ammunition, I'm going to feel very stupid before I die if I left my tools elsewhere when they are needed. I have noted that in trips to NYC most of the firms have extensive security before you can enter their buildings. Why should I be so much less careful?

No, it's not a power kick. But, it is an extremely serious decision for me, and I'm strill crossing that bridge.

Thanks again for the great number of practical solutions to this issue. Regards from AZ.

 

[cornered rat]

How about keeping a GE minigun in 5.56 in your office, and a quick-mount halo for your head and wings for your back. Any trouble, you do the "avenging angel" impersonation and depart, stash the gun and the halo. No one would be able to tell that it was that meek office worker who never makes any trouble

 

[WESHOOT2]

Hate to admit it but my 'always' gun is a mouse. But it IS in my pocket everywhere but in the air. And I do have a 'car-gun', but I still bring a gun in. Ankle holster is better than no gun but too hard to access in a pinch. So I'll stick with my mouse and hope it's all I'll never need.
FIRST RULE -- BRING A GUN.

 

[scubajim]

I like the Kel-Tec P-11 or P-40 with belt clip hooked over the trousers, but under the belt strong side hip, tuck shirt in all the way around, including over the gun. Then gently pull the shirt out a little all the way around to "blouse" it. Check in the mirror before going to the office. P-11 should be invisible, comfortable, and accessible by ripping shirt up with off hand drawing with shooting hand.

 

[Frank in FL]

Pocket carry seems to be the answer, and I've taken to using the Kel-Tec P32 which is decently small and very light. Found a stiff but thin leather pocket holster at a gun show which is ideal, looks like a wallet. The cartridgeis lighter than I'd like but far better than nothing.

 

[Spectre]

Once I've had the chance to run some rounds through it, I plan on carrying my Kel-tec P32 in a front pocket holster daily at the office. I believe a mousegun in pocket holster is a good choice, with larger piece in locked briefcase.

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http://members.theglobe.com/umbrae/spectre.html

 

[Chris H]

Guaranteed that when your attacker is close (which is **NOT** a good situation) and you fire one or two mouse round through his chest/neck area (impossible to miss because he's currently whipping you) he'll notice. He won't stop to think whether it was a .22 or .50... he'll stop to think that he's getting your carpet very dirty and that that is very rude (so said his mama).

If all you can carry is a mouse. Carry a mouse. They're louder than hell and if it's dark your attacker will think your shooting a .50 at him anyway.

Now if a riot breaks out outside your door, I really doubt a .50 or .22 (either one) would do a difference.

I have never been shot but I know a fellow who got shot with a .22 in the leg area. According to him it felt like a sledgehammer and then blood was all the place.

So I carry a mouse gun and think of it like a small, easy to control sledgehammer... it's just where that hammer lands.

 

[Anthony]

Hello List,

My approach to being armed at work is a bit different. I'm a technical writer and work at home as well as at client sites. Since I do this on a contract basis I move from client to client every few months. As a result, I never really have time to get to know the people or the environment very well.

So I'm extra careful.

When I'm at a client site I typically carry two handguns...one large one small...one on my body and the other not. This gives me access to a handgun at all times, but also allows me the option of something more powerful in case some loser decides to "go postal" and take the office staff with him.

The small one is a custom Smith & Wesson Model 640 in .38 Special with a couple of Bianchi speedstrips backing it up. All loaded with Federal 158-grain LSWCHP +P Nyclad. It's either in a Mitch Rosen pocket holster or an Alessi ankle rig depending on the pants.

My other handgun is a Smith & Wesson Model 1086 DAO in 10mm Auto loaded with Federal 155-grain Hi-Shok JHPs. It's secreted in an Eagle Industries Unlimited cordura attache case. It has a "gun pocket" behind a large exterior pocket on the side of the case. It holds the gun and one spare magazine quite securely. With the bag slung over my strong side shoulder, I can snake the pistol out of its hiding place about as quickly as I could a belt mounted rig. It also has the option of adding a Level IIIA kevlar panel if you wish.

The quality of the case is very high and it shows little if any wear after four years of service.

Although I initially had my reservations about leaving the gun unattended, I'm usually either near the gun or away from it for very short periods of time and usually have my own office.

Lately I've found that the case doesn't have enough room to hold the reference manuals I seem to be carrying more and more. So I'm going to buy a new version Eagle just brought out that actually has two main compartments like a portable computer case. The second compartment has a wall of velcro for mounting all sorts of accessories like spare magazines, flashlight, pepper spray, cellular telephone, etc. in addition to the secret compartment.

Take a look at their website for more information...

The address escapes me though.

- Anthony

 

[John Hunter]

Jeff,

I use to work in an office before retiring. I was not however stuck with a suit and jacket so I was able to wear a Rosen ARG with a S&W 4516-2 but in really hot weather I went with an Alessi ankle holster with a S&W Airweight 38 Spl.

John - NRA - Lifer

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/6328/sw4516-2.gif>

 

[DCEbdon]

I have to agree with Spectre. Since you are pretty unlikely to be attacked by a workmate around the water cooler, your need for a gun is more likely to cover you entering or leaving the building when you can't get to a larger calibre in your car. Kel-Tec's P-32 (not widely available yet) weighs only 9 ounces loaded with 7 rounds of .32 ACP and is only .75" thick. It is easily concealed in a shirt pocket and future accessories will include a belt clip and a lanyard for hanging the gun around your neck. Reports from those who have one already say that you have to remember that it is in your pocket so you don't send it through the washing machine! A gun that is that concealable will go with you everywhere, even when wearing light jogging shorts and a T-shirt. Price? About $200. Check out the Kel-Tec owner's group (KTOG) for a wealth of information about Kel-Tec products. http://www.ktog.com. No, I am not a stockholder but I love their products.

Dave Ebdon

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Just finished my CCW training last evening at Caswell's in AZ. Great course, facility and instructors. We covered much more ground than I expected, and last night we were shown about every carry arrangement made. Had plenty of opportunity to discuss various carry options, handguns and ammo.

Spectre / Dave, I appreciate the reference to Kel-Tec - I'm definitely going to try out a P-32. I believe their owners group is at http://www.ktog.org/ , and I found Kel-Tec itself at http://www.kel-tec.com/ (for those other members who might also be taking an interest). Also going to be looking hard at Kahr, S&W's Airweight, etc. Lots of study to do.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their ideas here. I greatly appreciate your help.

Regards from AZ

 

[scubajim]

My earlier post about the Kel-Tec P-11/P-40 was before I got my new P-32. This is truly a "pocket pistol". It is very comfortable in your hip pocket with just a folded handkerchief to break up the outline. I have recently gotten an Uncle Mike's #1 pocket holster which works great in my front strongside pocket. The Mil Tec ankle holster is also very comfortable. This little gun is great and I don't even have the belt clip yet! I still prefer the more powerful 9mm or .40 cal. but when they are too difficult to conceal the .32 gets "pocketed". Sometimes I carry both. The ankle holster is great for carrying the .32 as a backup.