CCW at the office - practically speaking

[Jeff Thomas]

I take my classes at the end of the month, and should have my CCW permit 30 to 60 days later, they say.

I'll check again, but I believe our company's personnel handbook is vague on whether an employee can carry at the office. I'm an officer of the company, although not the owner. If I show up in a suit and holster on my belt I'm sure they'll either give me some career counseling or a psych evaluation.

So, extreme discretion is important, and, unfortunately, I'll have to give up a little in the way of best handgun for most practical handgun. For personal time I'm standardizing on the 1911 pistol style (Para P-12 so far, .45 ACP). But I'm also familiar with 9mm Sig's, .357 revolvers, etc.

I've asked this question around a little locally, and I get a lot of 'you need to find what works best for you'. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but I'm new enough to this that I'm not getting anywhere on the issue. And, I don't want to spend a lot of money on holsters to experiment until I find a good solution.

While I wear a suit coat, it comes off when I hit my office door. So I gather my options come down to belly bands and ankle holsters? [I know they are poor alternatives, but what choice do I have?] And, if those holsters are the practical solution, what handguns will work best in that situation?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited March 14, 1999).]

 

[Rob Pincus]

I don't know your build, but you might try out a 642 (or the new titanium version ..342???) in an ankle holster. Make sure it doesn't fall down.

I dislike autos in ankle holsters.. too dirty down there by the floor.

Same guns would work in a Belly band, if necessary.

 

[Grayfox]

Consider a good paddle holster. When you come in you could take it off and slip the gun into a desk drawer. I know several people who do this.

 

[Rob Pincus]

THe PITA with that is everytim eyou head to the head, you have to worry about someone poking around in your desk... but a small auto from a paddle holster into locked breifcase is a good option.

 

[Senator]

Well, at the risk of being flamed for suggesting a "mousegun", a Seecamp or NAA Guardian would fit the bill nicely. The ability to always be armed, DAO triggers, less chance that co-workers will realize you're carrying, and IMHO quicker draw than an ankle holster would provide make these a logical choice.

The only drawback is what I affectionately refer to as "Seecamp pocket" - the tendency for holes to wear on the outside of your pants pocket where the end of the barrel sits. Between that and my knife clips fraying the edges of my pockets, my pants don't stand a chance.


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Kelly

Deo Vindice

 

[STEVE M]

You do have several options in addition to the ones already mentioned. Kramer shirt/vest, the special built cases, holsters such as Rosen's Workman and pocket holsters. The size of gun you can carry with these depends on your build and tolerance. Some won't be able to carry anything bigger than a Seacamp or J-frame, others can carry a 1911 in a bellyband and be comfortable. Good luck.

 

[Mike in VA]

There are a couple of leather goods mfrs who make a zippered Day-runner case that has the planner/calendar book on top and a separate zippered compartment in back that will hold a compact auto & magazine or J-frame. It's pretty discrete and you can carry it with you when you go to meetings. Look under accessories/holsters at hollowpoint.com for the vendors. Cool is the rule, M2

 

[Dennis]

Has anyone tried, over a period of time, one of the IWB holster styles that lets you tuck your shirt between the holster and the belt? I think FIST has one with velcro and Mitch Rosen has the Workman. Anybody have practical use info on these or something similar?

 

[Mark King]

I was sent a SS2 by FIST to evaluate. An you can indeed carry a smallish handgun completely concealed. It takes some practice to tuck the shirt to where it doesn't look funny, but once mastered my concealment firearm, in my case a Kahr K9, is hidden. Even my gun buddies couldn't tell where I was carrying. The down side is, for me anyway, you have to wear loose fitting clothing to pull it off. When I carry using this system I'm usually in a suit with pleated trousers and a full cut shirt. I've also carried this way when wearing Dockers and a loose button down shirt. You will not be able to wear tight jeans and conceal with this holster. BTW the FIST product was VERY well made and the holster took a short time to break in. Now that iot is broken in, a fast draw can be made, but the holster secures the gun very well. Hope this helps... Mark/FL

 

[Terry]

If you're carrying a small, LIGHT pistol or revolver a pocket holster is the way to go. Anything in the range of the small S&W revolvers, Seecamp, Guardian, Colt Pony, or my new favorite, the Colt Pocket Nine will work. Holsters are available from any number of makers. This way you won't wear holes in your pockets and the weapon is positioned for presentation. It's not the fastest but it beats an ankle holster hands down.

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[Gino]

I have to second the small 32acp option! You could get a Guardian for about $425 and for $50 get a good pocket holster. You could carry in the front or back pocket, or maybe get some Thunderwear. I grant you it's no 45, but it beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick! And you could go years without anyone knowing about it. I just don't see an ankle holster or a belly band as being that discrete. We are talking about COMPLETE concealablity, right? You could always keep a larger cal gun in the car. If you do ever get caught with a mousegun, people may not react as freaked out as a smallish 38 or 9mm.

Just a couple thoughts,
Gino

 

[ATM]

I have used the Workman by Mitch Rosen to carry a Detective Special. As noted no tight clothes, and a loose shirt is necessary. However when done properly, even the guys at the range did not spot the gun. Also as noted, I would lean to a thin semi auto for this kind of carry, preferrably one with a small butt.

Keep in mind that discretion is the name for you, speed is a secondary consideration.

One other option I have no experience with, is the Pager Pal carry. I would imagine a small semi auto, Seecamp or Guardian, would conceal nicely in one. Do you have to carry a pager? Voila you are set.

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Freedom is not Free

 

[Jeff OTMG]

The ankle holster is not that bad and can be much more comfortable than a pocket holster if you have nice tropical weight wool suit pants on. I just replaced my Walther PPK with a Kahr MK9 as an ankle gun and use an Alessi ankle holster. Pocket carry is good but I usually use that for more casual attire. A S&W 940 in jeans, or a S&W mod 38 in shorts or lighter pants works well. You can always go with the deep concealment pistols, my preference being the Autauga II, in a wallet holster. Be certain that the pistol cannot be fire while still in the wallet and be sure to check out the Kel-Tec .32 when it becomes more available.

 

[cornered rat]

Why not an alloy-frame .38 5-shot? They tend to be fairly light, flat and good shooters...and you could have a large "billfold" in your pocket.

 

[snoman]

try the fist #22, it is an IWB, but your shirt tucks over it, very nice design...

---snoman---

 

[Dennis]

Thanks, all, for the info on IWB holsters. Sounds like I need to try one!

I tried both Thunderwear and Pager Pal (in the store - not an extended trial). I'm a short, fat guy with a very low waist. Therefore, these two rigs didn't even come close to working for me! With my Shiner Bock belly, my belt is almost at my thighs when I'm sitting (chair, car seat, etc.) so there simply was no room. (Boy! I'd like to make some other comments here, but out of deference to tender "sensitivities" I pass - for now...)

Another point to consider. If something hard (e.g. gun, knife, big belt buckle, etc.) is between you and the seat belt or air bag, it can put your internal organs at risk in case of an accident.

I have heard conflicting tales about "belly band" type holsters. Personally, at least for me, a belly band holster doesn't put the gun (or knife) between me and the seat belt, air bag, steering wheel, or car door. So I don't worry about the belly band style. (I just don't care for it!)

So far, my Alessi IWB works fine with my .45 so long as the weather is cool enough to warrant a sweater or light jacket. Texas, however, is a "warm" climate - that's why I'm asking about the "tuck-in" IWB style. Thanks again for the help.

 

[45King]

Jeff,
An option I haven't seen mentioned is a snubby (S&W, Colt, or Taurus) using a Barami HipGrip. If you're not familiar with this product, it's a set of polymer stocks which has an extension on the right side panel that hooks over the belt. I've used one for several years with a Taurus M85 and M605, and it works well for me. You can tuck it inside your shirt like a crossdraw, and then blouse out the shirt a little to conceal the tuck. Unbutton one button, reach in, and viola, a nasty surprise for a would-be goblin. I've even carried it this way under a polo sytle shirt in a behind-the-hip mode. This takes a specialized form of the "Hackathorn rip" draw, but it beats the hell out of being disarmed. Contact the Barami Corp. at (810)738-0462, or write to 4384 Foxpoint Dr., W. Bloomfield, MI, 48322. Word of advice-have a Dremel tool or some sandpaper handy; they seem to be molded oversized, and if you try to shoot you gun w/o modification to the stocks, they will bite you. I evened & smoothed mine, and I can shoot Cor-Bon +P .357 from my 605 without too much discomfort.

Of course, there's also the option of a Smith 317 worn on a neck lanyard. With 10 rds. of Quik Shok ammo, it ought to be a decent persuader (and you can carry a 50 rd. box of spare ammo in your pocket{G}.)

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Regards, Richard

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Thanks for all the help. I now have a much better idea as to how I'll handle this. Regards from AZ.

 

[James K]

I guess I have a dumb question. Is there a serious threat to your life in your office, or do you just want to bring your car gun inside with you? The risks involved with carrying in some offices could be high - loss of job, loss of security clearance, bad references, arrest, shot by nervous security guard, etc. The "power kick" of carrying concealed just isn't worth it in most cases. If you just want to bring in a car gun, a briefcase or jacket pocket works fine, then leave it in the briefcase or transfer unobserved to a locked desk drawer.

 

[Bill Fitzgerald]

Yeah, that is a dumb question, but we'll take it easy on you this time.

Most people who go to the trouble of carrying a gun do not do it because of some "power kick". They do it because they realize that they, and they alone, are responsible for their own safety. They realize that there is no such thing as a "safe zone", and the office is potentially as dangerous as the street.

That said, it seems that most people would deem the risks of getting caught higher than the odds of actually needing to use the gun.

Personally, I carry in the office every day. Some days it's an IWB, today it was a belt slide.

Did I mention that I work at Home? 8-0