Can a Glock be modified to suit me?

[45_Shooter]

Hi all,

I used to enjoy pistols such as Glocks and Sigs, but as I got more into gaming, I found other guns that shot faster and / or more accurately for whatever game I was playing at the time. I was wondering if / how a Glock could be modified to correct some of the gripes that caused me to get rid of them, since I'd like to compete in IDPA under SSP class. I usually shoot my 1911's in CDP, so I would probably be looking at 9mm.

1. Trigger. I'm pretty sure it can be lightened, but can the pull be changed so that it doesn't have that abrupt stacking point at the end, kind of like a revolver trigger. Or, can the takeup be eliminated so as to make it like a single action trigger? Also, how light can you go? One of the guys I shoot with has trouble with Winchester primers in a Glock 17, but his trigger is very light.

2. Pointability. Can the grip angle be changed to make it more standard? Glocks always pointed high for me, and I don't want to adjust my natural point of aim.

3. Sights. What is everbody replacing the plastic stock ones with? I don't see them lasting too long in a competitive environment.

4. Accuracy. What can be done? I realize that the stock barrels can't shoot lead, so I'd probably replace the barrel anyhow.

I would like to run a Glock for the consistent trigger pull, although if it ends up being too much money, a DAO Sig or something might work too, I just don't see tons of them in IDPA.

 

[RickB]

I shot a borrowed Glock at a couple of matches, being a dyed-in-the-wool 1911 guy, and it really wasn't a big deal, adapting to the trigger, grip angle, etc. In dry fire, all the little differences are magnified, but once the timer goes off, I didn't have any problems. The gun I shot had a lightened trigger, and would fail to crack Winchester primers about 10% of the time, so I just loaded with Federals; if it were my gun, I'd adjust the trigger to work with any ammo. The stock sights are truly awful! I'd probably have a Dawson front and Heinie rear, as that works well for me. The gun I shot was pretty accurate. I had to make some 15yd shots on USPs, and didn't have any trouble. Really, for IDPA, a gun that shoots 4" groups at 25 yards is plenty accurate. I would probably opt for a XD or M&P, if I was serious about a plastic gun.

 

[azredhawk44]

1. 3.5# disconnect. It's not a perfect solution, but better than stock triggers. I had one on a G21 and it was okay. Still didn't compare to even a cheap 1911 trigger though. That "sproingy" feeling was there right near let-off even with the 3.5 disconnect.

2. Look for "grip reductions" or "grip melts." They can take the hump off the glock, reduce the size of the cavity on the back of the grip, and attempt to match a grip angle you prefer.

3. I had Heine front/rears put on my G21. Never fell off or broke. I dabbed 'em with some hi-viz paint to make 'em stand out more.

4. As much as I ended up not liking the G21, it was accurate. I had an aftermarket barrel in .400 Corbon for it too, and shot lead from that, but no aftermarket .45acp barrel. I'm sure Jarvis or Bar-Sto make better than Glock barrels... otherwise they wouldn't be in business.

I don't care for much of any striker-system firearm, but the XD is probably better than the Glock for what you want. The barrel allows for lead bullets from the factory. The factory will ship metal sights rather than plastic, and from different vendors. I just run the stock white-dots on my XD9. The grip is where you want it already.

The only drawback on the XD is that the trigger has less aftermarket capability, and a longer reset than a Glock. But, on the plus side, it has a cleaner break even without the aftermarket disconnector.

Maybe a single-action CZ 75 would suit?

ETA: oops, SSP division doesn't allow the CZ 75 SA model. DAO, DA/SA or "safe action." Sorry.

 

[bushidomosquito]

People have bent further backwards with modifications and aftermarket parts to make a Glock work for them than any other gun. That says a lot about the gun but I found that I was much more adaptable than pieces of plastic and steel. I had my Glock gripes at first but went ahead and bought one 'cause I wanted a user and it grew on me. I learned how to shoot it. I learned how to point it. I learned how to pull that wacky trigger until I believed that was how a trigger should be. I adapted, not the gun. You will never get anything close to a 1911 trigger in a Glock. A short pull and crisp break come at a cost to reliability and simplicity.

That "stacking" that you feel is two things going on through the trigger pull, the trigger bar reaching up and disengaging the firing pin safety and the rear of the bar moving down a ramp to disconnect from the striker all while compressing the striker spring. You can have parts polished to make it smoother but you can't take steps out of the equation.

Sights are easy enough and grip angle has been done too but I've never met a man who was more accurate than a Glock with a stock barrel.

 

[Jim Watson]

I was wondering if / how a Glock could be modified to correct some of the gripes that caused me to get rid of them, since I'd like to compete in IDPA under SSP class.

1. Trigger.
There is a lot that can be done to a Glock trigger. It can be made light to very light with reliable ignition. It cannot be made to feel like a single action. I have read that it can be made to feel like a double action.

2. Pointability. Can the grip angle be changed to make it more standard?
Not and shoot in IDPA SSP, grip modifications move it into ESP. Which is why I am working up a Smith & Wesson Plastic M&P for SSP. Grip angle more what I am used to. A Dan Burwell trigger gives it light but smooth takeup, a soft smooth break, and no more overtravel than the action requires.

3. Sights.
The hot setup these days is a fibre optic front and a steel black rear. Several brands to choose from.

4. Accuracy.
I have not seen an IDPA shot that a stock Glock could not make, if the shooter could hold it on. Do the arithmetic, how long would it take for cast bullets to save enough to pay for a new barrel? It only takes a moderately fast shooter for the smoke from smoldering bullet lube to be an aggravation if the light is wrong.

I would like to run a Glock for the consistent trigger pull, although if it ends up being too much money, a DAO Sig or something might work too, I just don't see tons of them in IDPA.
With good reason. If you want to shoot DAO, try SSR.

 

[Cowart]

Trigger. I'm pretty sure it can be lightened, but can the pull be changed so that it doesn't have that abrupt stacking point at the end, kind of like a revolver trigger.

Take a look at a Kahr. The pull is long, but very smooth and consistent.

 

[HK123]

Take a look at a Kahr. The pull is long, but very smooth and consistent.

You don't see many but the HK LEM trigger system which is an option on the USP, P2000, and HK45 is similar to what you describe.

Some people dislike it, but I hear it's a love it or hate it type of deal.

 

[Silvanus]

What do you like about the Glock? You seem like you want to change everything that is particular about that pistol. Just try a few different guns. Maybe an XD? They have a lighter trigger pull and different grip angle.

Accuracy shouldn't be a problem either way, if you train a little.

 

[45_Shooter]

Ok, so if grip angle mods would move the gun out of SSP, I might have to look at the alternatives, maybe an M&P or an XD. My friend has an XD .45 tactical he likes, and is quite accurate with. Maybe I'll have to do some shooting with it.

Jim Watson, I'm assuming the Dan Burwell trigger you're referring to is for an M&P? That might be worth looking into for me as well, as the M&P's I handled had a vague and somewhat gritty trigger, which put me off of them, although the grip was nice.

As far as HK goes, I owned a USP 40 Compact that was a weapon difficult for me to shoot well. The trigger feel was strange for me, and it seemed to have alot of muzzle climb. I would be hesitant to go back, but if I get a chance, I'll look at the new offerings with the LEM trigger, maybe they're different.

As far as accuracy, I wasn't really complaining about the lack of in a Glock, my model 23 could group surprisingly well for a compact gun, and for IDPA I probably wouldn't need any more than that could provide. I was just asking if the gun can be tightened up at all, maybe it would be worth a point or two in a competition, never know. Probably won't matter if it's easier to go with a different make of gun though!

 

[HK123]

the LEM trigger is much lighter than the DA/SA on the standard HKs. The HK triggers are usually stuff on the DA pull. The SA is better, but they take some work. The Match trigger offered for the USP is the same one that comes on the HK45 and it's quite good comparatively.

The LEM takes more work to learn though. Long first pull with a constant weight and after the break the reset is very short (almost like a Glock but not quite as short).

You'd really have to feel it to understand it. I like it, but have never fired one. They aren't very common.

 

[45_Shooter]

What do you like about the Glock? You seem like you want to change everything that is particular about that pistol. Just try a few different guns. Maybe an XD? They have a lighter trigger pull and different grip angle.

Accuracy shouldn't be a problem either way, if you train a little.

I was looking at a Glock the same way I look at a base 1911; a durable, well designed platform with some things that can be improved upon. I like the basic gun that has many good qualities. I just know what I didn't like about my previous Glocks, which I listed. With my 1911's, I found what I liked and didn't like, and built them my way. With polymer pistols, I have owned a couple, and the one I liked the best was a Glock, but if it's easier to start with a different manufacturers platform, then I'm not opposed to it.

As far as accuracy goes, I can normally be quite competitive and typically shoot around 2-300 rounds a week through various guns. I'm used to shooting PPC in the winter, so maybe I'm asking more for accuracy than really needs to be there for IDPA.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Quoted by azredhawk44:

The only drawback on the XD is that the trigger has less aftermarket capability, and a longer reset than a Glock. But, on the plus side, it has a cleaner break even without the aftermarket disconnector.

The aftermarket sector for XD triggers are gaining ground quite quickly. There's also reliable companies out there such as Canyon Creek, Springfield, etc. that provide trigger jobs that are like heaven.

Sounds like you're wanting to modify a Glock so much that will put you at the point of diminishing return in the $$ department.

I'd recommend switching to a base platform that you're happy with and do some tweaking rather than completely changing the whole gambit on another.

Glocks are good pistols, no doubt about it. However, I think from the items described to change you're trying to make a Ferrari out of a dump truck...

 

[YukonKid]

sounds like you want an XD mister

 

[railroader]

Just remember XD's are single action, they are fully cocked in case you are interested in one. As for glock and czs I have both. One is a glock 17 with a 3.5 connector, sevigny competition sights(fiber optic front) and a lone wolf barrel. The czs are both 75bs one is double action and the other is single action. One cz has a fiber optic front and adjustable rear while the other has stock sights. The cz stock sights are just ok the fiber optic fronts are great. I have shot all three guns in matches. The fastest for me would be a cz with the fiber optic sights. The glock is fast but with the added weight I seem to get back on target faster with the cz. Also the cz grip feels more natural than the glock. Mark

 

[ElectricHellfire]

1

. Trigger. I'm pretty sure it can be lightened, but can the pull be changed so that it doesn't have that abrupt stacking point at the end, kind of like a revolver trigger. Or, can the takeup be eliminated so as to make it like a single action trigger? Also, how light can you go? One of the guys I shoot with has trouble with Winchester primers in a Glock 17, but his trigger is very light.

Unlike many pistols, you can readily buy an after market trigger to whatever # you prefer and drop it right in. If your friend is having problems with Wincester primers I must assume he is shooting reloads? Really shouldnt do that in a Glock IMO.

2. Pointability. Can the grip angle be changed to make it more standard? Glocks always pointed high for me, and I don't want to adjust my natural point of aim.

You can but I wouldnt. Learn to adjust your grip. Its not hard. IMO the whole pointing high thing is overplayed.

3. Sights.

Try some out and pick what best suits you. I have no problems with the stock sights on my Glocks.

4. Accuracy. What can be done? I realize that the stock barrels can't shoot lead, so I'd probably replace the barrel anyhow.

Theres nothing wrong with Stock Glock barrels but you can buy cheap replacements from Lone Wolf. Accuracy has more to do with the shooter than replacing parts.


BOTTOM LINE - You enjoy the base reliablity of the Glock platform but please know that the more you modify it from its original configuration the less reliable it will most likely become. IMO leaving it as stock as possible and practicing more will yield better results.

 

[WESHOOT2]

I wondered the very same thing.........

.........So, starting with a used M20, I spent $1400 proving I couldn't.

But it had an absolutely spectacular trigger, identical to a superbly-tuned 2.5lb '1911' trigger. I am still very proud of that, as all trigger work was done by myself.
It was certainly 'accurate', both with its stock and hard-fit (by Mr. Jarvis) Jarvis barrel.
Sights.....oh, my......after five different sets I finally settled down, but sights are personal (like the rest of this story, ay?).
Arizona Response Systems did a wonderful grip reduction for me, but the gun still didn't 'feel' right in my hand(s).
Shot it much during ammo and load development; shot it for USPSA (even used it for the '99 Area 6, which was far from Vermont).

Sold it to a friend.

Next Glock I owned (won as staff at a GSSF match) was a M17 I sold unfired.

To a friend.



Now I own four 1911s; I shoot them best.
(I own three EAA Witnesses; I like them best.)

 

[45_Shooter]

Quote:
. Trigger. I'm pretty sure it can be lightened, but can the pull be changed so that it doesn't have that abrupt stacking point at the end, kind of like a revolver trigger. Or, can the takeup be eliminated so as to make it like a single action trigger? Also, how light can you go? One of the guys I shoot with has trouble with Winchester primers in a Glock 17, but his trigger is very light.

Unlike many pistols, you can readily buy an after market trigger to whatever # you prefer and drop it right in. If your friend is having problems with Wincester primers I must assume he is shooting reloads? Really shouldnt do that in a Glock IMO.


Quote:
2. Pointability. Can the grip angle be changed to make it more standard? Glocks always pointed high for me, and I don't want to adjust my natural point of aim.

You can but I wouldnt. Learn to adjust your grip. Its not hard. IMO the whole pointing high thing is overplayed.


Quote:
3. Sights.

Try some out and pick what best suits you. I have no problems with the stock sights on my Glocks.


Quote:
4. Accuracy. What can be done? I realize that the stock barrels can't shoot lead, so I'd probably replace the barrel anyhow.

Theres nothing wrong with Stock Glock barrels but you can buy cheap replacements from Lone Wolf. Accuracy has more to do with the shooter than replacing parts.


BOTTOM LINE - You enjoy the base reliablity of the Glock platform but please know that the more you modify it from its original configuration the less reliable it will most likely become. IMO leaving it as stock as possible and practicing more will yield better results.

It sounds like you're telling me a Glock is perfect in it's original state, the problem is me, and I shouldn't mess with it to make it better because it isn't possible. I was told the same thing about USGI 1911's, and found out different for myself. I hear about lots of people modifying Glocks to better serve their needs, so I must not be alone. If reliability suffers slightly it won't bother me on a target gun, my personal experience tells me that clearance drills are still necessary with a Glock anyhow.

 

[nemoaz]

. Trigger. I'm pretty sure it can be lightened, but can the pull be changed so that it doesn't have that abrupt stacking point at the end, kind of like a revolver trigger. Or, can the takeup be eliminated so as to make it like a single action trigger? Also, how light can you go? One of the guys I shoot with has trouble with Winchester primers in a Glock 17, but his trigger is very light.

You don't see many but the HK LEM trigger system which is an option on the USP, P2000, and HK45 is similar to what you describe.

I've carried three (USPc, P2000sk and currently a P2000) and the LEM trigger isn't at all like a revolver. It has basically has a very long pull with no resistance until the very end then has a short fairly light pull that is very similar a stock Glock IMHO.

Methinks you were dropping the trigger on a LEM which didn't have the slide racked before hand. It does have that long revolver like pull if the slide hasn't been racked, but you will never feel that unless you are second striking or you did something silly like assembling the firearm with a round in the chamber.

 

[ElectricHellfire]

In reality nothing is perfect. I simply think they are their most reliable in their stock or close to stock configuration.

However, if its just going to be for range work or match shooting then modify all you want. Fortunately for Glock owners the aftermarket parts and modifications are vast and cheap for the most part and most can be simply "dropped in". You wont find that with too many other brands.
So go for it and give us a range report.

 

[Jim Watson]

An XD is considered single action and is an IDPA ESP, not SSP.

Yes, the gun I had Dan Burwell work on was the S&W Plastic M&P. It is not quite up to a really sharp Glock, but the grip angle and contour is much more to my taste, so I am ahead on the game.
If you are comfortable grinding on your own guns, there is a DIY trigger job.
http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&Ptriggerjob1.htm