Call it off?

James K

Member In Memoriam
S&W has now been sold to an American company, and it's about time. The "agreement" with the Federal government appears to be a dead letter. The boycott by gun buyers helped make both of these things happen. But S&W still makes some darn fine handguns, especially (and arguably) the best revolvers. The boycott gave Taurus and Ruger a hand up and helped improve the quality of Taurus to the point where they are excellent revolvers. Rugers always were good and many people have had the chance to learn that, so both companies benefited.

So, is it time to call off the *&* stuff, and buy S&W again? I never wanted them to go under, but saw no way other than a boycott to express my disapproval of the old management's actions. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the new outfit and buy from them. True, we have no way of knowing which guns were made under the old regime, but those are long paid for anyway.

Jim
 

Rainbow Six

New member
Well, I didn't buy a new S&W for a long time after the agreement, but then as time went on, I didn't see the point of the boycott any more. I think putting them out of business is one of the most stupid things gun owners could ever do. I have already called off my participation in the boycott.

I also became somewhat of an outcast with some of the more self righteous on this board by buying a new S&W PC gun and posting about it here. I was basically accused of being a sell-out for not selling out to their convictions. Go figure!! I think it was stated best by someone in another thread. Some soldiers never get the message that the war is over... :rolleyes:

For me, it's over. Get a damned S&W if it's what you want. I'll still talk to you if you do, just don't expect the same respect from others... :barf:

R6
 
I bought a post-agreement SW342PD because I wanted one. I thought that I would get more utility out of it than my SW642LS. I was right. But I won't consider one of the new Smiths with the built-in, non-removable gun lock. It is a feature that I will never have on one of my firearms.
 

Apple a Day

New member
Egad! If Smith and Wesson [there, I typed it out loud!] have renounced evil and stepped back into the light, Ashcroft has released a statement that gun-ownership is an idividual right, Rosie has been declared persona non grata by the major retailers... does this mean we have to go back to just arguing the 9mm versus the .45?!!!:eek:
I still want to see an official press statement, if for no other reason than to see the head mouthpieces for the major networks choke when they have to read it out loud. :p
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
Look up the site of Saf-T-Hammer and check out the executives. At least one of the big-wigs is an ex S&W honcho.

Also, from everything I've seen, the new company has stated that it intends to abide by and pre-existing agreements made by S&W.
 

USP45

New member
It's absurd to think that we boycotted a company because they were owned by Brits.

Once more for the folks in the cheap seats... Until S$W OPENLY, HONESTLY and COMPLETELY rejects both the HUD and BOSTON agreements, no new pistols.
 

C.R.Sam

New member
Since Safe T Hammer has publicly stated that they will abide by the agreements.......

And; since untill the agreements are legaly and officially voided they only need a change of people in the White House or a change of mind of the present people those agreements may at any time be enforced to the fullest.......

I will fully support the boycott.
And I will support the companies that refused, at risk, to sign the agreements.
 

Redlg155

New member
I still support the boycott until things clear up.

What always kinda got to me is that although many private individuals support the Boycott, major publications such as Guns and Ammo continue to push S&W products as though nothing has happened. Lately it seems everytime I turn around they, and other gun rags have been doing S&W reviews.

Go figure.

Good Shooting
RED
 

dwesson445

New member
May I humbly suggest an alternative to the boycott?

I've been told by people I believe that although Smith's Federal agreement may crumble to dust in time, the Boston agreement is absolutely rock solid. I'm told Smith has no intention of fighting that. In light of S&W residing in MA, I would suppose that makes some sense.

HOWEVER, I submit that perhaps there are TWO guilty parties here. Yes, Smith knuckled under, but for whatever my opinion is worth the city officials of Boston are just as, if not more so, guilty of wrongdoing. It is they who are denying the rights of the law abiding by going after S&W only for financial gain. I'm sure this has been suggested before, but why can't we boycott Boston and the "Commonwealth" of Massachusetts until they tear up the agreement? I'd do it just to annoy TV Producer David Kelley... :)

What are the major industries of Boston and MA? Let's give 'em some hell. :)
 

Scott Conklin

New member
Screw Smith. I never liked their revolvers much and I've never seen a Smith semi I could stand the look or feel of. When and if they stand up on their hind legs and publicly declare an end of the agreement I might buy something of theirs just to salute them but until then they can rot.
 
Just didn't see the point of the boycott anymore...

Wow.

Just like some people don't see the point of the Second Amendment anymore...

I mean hey, we've had the Second Amendment for over 200 years now, and the British and their king haven't come calling since 1815, so what's the point?

Anyone here willing to give up on that, too?
 

AR-10

New member
Running them out of business is not a stupid thing to do. It is the only thing to do if they do not crush the agreement.

Unless you think it is good that they want to restrict free trade and let the government decide which firearm designs will be manufactured.

Unless you want politically appointed regional committees inspecting gun shops and telling them how to run their business.

We were talking about this at the gun club tonight while we were shooting trap. Nobody wants anything to do with a new Smith. The gun locks were not even discussed. Like THAT makes two cents worth of difference when you are discussing how the agreement would affect my rights, and yours.

If Smith recovers their market share it will only make other gun makers think that there is a profit to be made by dumping on their customers. S&W must break the agreement or fold. there is no safe middle ground.
 

J. Parker

New member
I'd love to get a NEW S&W revolver. To me, they're the best of the best of the best, Sir (to quote a movie). I just can't yet. Gotta think about this one somemore. Best, J. Parker
 

beemerb

Moderator
Until they either put out a news release or a TV news release renounceing the agreement I will not buy a new smith.I am a smith wheel gun devote and have been most of my life but I still will not buy a new one.
 

VictorLouis

New member
Well, Jim kinda stoll my thunder on this one.:D I didn't read this thread until AFTER my las post under, "Agreement, Dead, or Just Dozing?"
 

Rainbow Six

New member
Mike Irwin,

With all due respect, I always enjoy your posts and topics and I have a respect of sorts for your gun knowledge, but (see that coming?) your reply is the exact knee jerk type of reply I expected. It's as radical as the replies you expected in your drop test thread. "Well, if this fight ain't worth havin' then let's just give up across the board" would sound as silly to me in this instance as "What if I dropped my gun from a Boeing 747 at 10,000 feet and then jumped after it only to catch it on it's first bounce and had just enough time to pull the trigger and kill my attacker before splattering on the ground?" would have sounded in your thread. No disrespect intended, just my view. :)

In general,

I love the "passive activist" attack that most people make against the "agreement". I mean, it takes a real warrior to sit home, not buy something and make posts about their "efforts" to save gun rights. If you guys are so adamant about this then why don't I see you in front of the gun stores passing out flyers and educating the "ignorant" that might accidentally wander into a shop and buy one of those dreaded guns that are so evil you can't spell the G**D****d name out in a post?!?

Sure, enough people not buying product will hurt a company, but you can post about the boycott and how you've done your part by doing nothing all day in the forums, but when was the last time someone walked into TFL looking to buy a new revolver and walked out with a new Smith & Wesson? Let's see, ummmmm, NEVER! I don't want a ration of crap for not sitting on my a$$ with you guys... Doing nothing other than boycotting the product at this point in the game is just a gnat's arse hair away from doing nothing, IN MY OPINION.


So, let's see here. I can walk into a gun shop and buy every new S&W they have in stock without hearing a peep from the devoted gun rights "activists" but let me post about it on the internet and it's Katy bar the door! I guess going out to gun shops and educating the public would be too much hassle to keep your 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS, huh?:confused:


FWIW,

I have never said that the "boycott" was bad from the word go, I just think it has run it's course and along the lines of Jim's post, maybe we should change gears while we have a little momentum going our way. Shutting down S&W is indeed sending a message to the other manufacturers but it may not be telling them what we'd like for them to know. We may, in their eyes be saying that it will be cheaper for them to let the government just shut them down and sell out remaining inventory than it will be to sign on with them and then suffer a boycott while they try to stay afloat, then be shut down by the people who still won't buy what they have left.

I think the message has hit home with them and has done all it can do without killing them completely, which as I have already stated, I think is stupid. This is just my opinion and I am not trying to change anybody's view of things. Just my 2/100ths of a dollar's worth.

On another note, hats off to the ones who really do get out and put up fliers and pictures to promote gun owners' rights and educate the people. I admire your dedication. The rest of us that are doing nothing or fighting as passive activists owe you dearly.

R6
 
Not a knee jerk reaction at all, Rainbow Six, but a comment that has been months in coming.

The logic that was displayed in your base rationalization is the exact same type of logic that many anti-gunners are using to try to gut the Second Amendment.

You seem to claim that people who pass on the purchase of a new Smith & Wesson and instead choose a product by another manufacturer are somehow passive activists?

Tell me, how could it be passive activism when, by Smith & Wesson's own admission, sales have fallen precipitiously since the signing of the agreement and the old owners were forced to lay off a significant portion of the work force?

If you read the financials and sales agreement between the new owners and Tompkins, you'd possibly understand just how badly the boycott punished S&W and its parent company for its actions.

A boycott, by its very nature, is an active endeavor. As I have repeatedly stated, in years past I made approximately $700 worth of direct purchases from Smith & Wesson A YEAR -- parts, co-branded items such as shirts, knives, and other crap and, when the agreement was signed, was activly considering the purchase of an S&W Mountain Bike. Such was the level of my commitment to Smith & Wesson and its products.

In the 2 calendar years since the agreement has been signed?

I have purchased several new guns. I have purchased tons of goodies. And I purchased my Mountain Bike.

Not a single item of which came from Smith & Wesson.

By my ACTIVE participation in the boycott, and by letting Smith & Wesson know exactly WHY they no longer receive my business, I have kept nearly $2,000 dollars from Smith & Wesson's coffers, and by doing so had an active hand in Smith & Wesson's financial woes.

I am extremely proud of that.

I am as equally proud of the fact that I have prevented people -- both friends and strangers -- from purchasing Smith & Wesson firearms by educating them about the agreement, the exact sort of activism that you claim doesn't exist simply because no one was there to tackle you and prevent you from purchasing a new Smith & Wesson product. Nice try.

You also claim that no one has ever walked into TFL and purchased a Smith & Wesson. That's true, this board doesn't broker tangible products.

It brokers something FAR more valuable -- information.

You have no clue, nor do I for that matter, how many newbies, unaware of the scope of Smith & Wesson's duplicity, have come on to this board looking for information on new handguns and have been swayed against the purchase of a new Smith & Wesson product.

And, quite frankly, you have NO clue what others here on this board do in their spare time to combat this agreement while at gunshows, gun stores, or their shooting clubs.

But we do know what you've done in your spare time. You've purchased a new Smith & Wesson, rewarded the company for its actions, and then have tried desparately to justify and rationalize your actions with the ludicrous argument that somehow your support of the Second Amendment is more holy, more basic and more pure because you've crawled into bed with the sellouts and gutters who are endangering not only YOUR Second Amendment rights, but MY Second Amendment rights.

Even worse, you then have the audacity to come onto this board, crow about your purchase, and then whine because you're getting bashed for it.

You've made your bed, so lay in it like a man and accept the kudos AND the criticism.
 

LawDog

Staff Emeritus
I think the message has hit home with them

Really? What has Smith and Wesson done to make you think that?

Have they apologized? No.
Have they played down the agreement? Nope.
Have they avoided signing another agreement? No, again.
have they asked the Government not to hold them to the signed agreement? Uh-uh.

So. What, exactly, has Smith and Wesson done to make you think the message has hit home with them?

Just curious.

LawDog
 
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