johnwilliamson062
(a) applies in that a states no license get you out of a warrant search.
Can you rephrase that? It doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure why that was even put in there.
Was there a past issue where people try to stop LEO from serving a warrant b/c they had an FFL? It does not provide any exposure over what any normal person's exposure. If LEO get a warrant they can search. So, I don't think it applies to this discussion.
It all applies to the discussion because there is so much misinformation regarding ATF and compliance inspections. Heck, just YOUR posts are chock full of bad information. I post the exact quote from ATF regulations to show what the "rules" actually are.
The "right to entry" covers two things:
1. If ATF believes that the licensee has committed a crime, they need a search warrant signed by a judge.
2. If ATF wants to perform a compliance inspection they don't need a warrant.
Quote:
Paragraph (b) deals with compliance inspection of licensees who are NOT collectors.
You yourself said this does not apply.
Good grief man.........the entire passage I quoted APPLIES to ATF §478.23 Right of entry and examination.......to licensees.
While I get it that you want to poke holes in my argument, you're going to need to do a better job than what you've shown so far.
(c) There used to be a box that one could check saying you were a C&R and skip the hours of operations/activity question. They re-did the form and removed that box. The form before that had small print indicating it was not necessary.
No kidding.
Gas used to be 33cents a gallon too.
The forms also aren't designed by federal law.
WRONG. Federal law requires ATF to develop the procedures, forms and regulations as required by the GCA, NFA, etc. To believe the stinking form is somehow not applicable is not only silly but bordering on sheer ignorance.
When the applicant sign the form this text is right above their signature: "21. Certification: Under the penalties imposed by 18 U.S.C. 924, I declare that I have examined this application in its entirety and the documents submitted in support thereof and to the best of my knowledge and belief, they are true, correct, and complete......"
In short, fail to answer a Federal form honestly and completely and you subject yourself to fines and or imprisonment. And if you don't think that possible read U.S. vs Abramski.
People are leaving the box empty, writing N/A, etc., and getting approved.
And I have ATF tax stamps issued on a silencer with Remington as the manufacturer. Yet Remington has never manufactured a single silencer.....their subsidiary Advanced Armament does.
Whether ATF does/does not enforce a regulation isn't germane, the regulation remains and IF ATF wanted they could reject any FFL application for such omissions.
I've also discussed this issue with people I know when the change was made, but I can't cite those conversations. Is it your opinion ATFE is attempting to mandate all collectors perform weekly cleaning of their collections during a certain hour and if an ATFE officer shows up to check the books during that hour one could lose their license?
Nice try, but I never said anything of the sort. In fact, a couple of posts above I DID WRITE" "Refusal to allow inspection of your records is grounds for revocation of a collectors 03FFL. The collector can either allow ATF entry into their premises or meet at the local ATF office."
If you have evidence that a collector can refuse ATF to perform a compliance inspection then post a citation to the regulation that allows that. You won't of course, because no such regulation or rule permits that...just like your "24 hour notice" rule doesn't exist.
And what the heck does "cleaning" of a collection have to do with a compliance inspection? I'll answer...NOTHING. That's a pathetic attempt to obfuscate the discussion.
AGAIN, you need to read the regulation and the Form 7. What you learn from gossip isn't Federal law or ATF regulation.
The purpose of Question 12 on the Form 7 is to show when "...you can be contacted by ATF personnel...". If you don't put down at least one hour you can expect a knock on the door at any hour.
I know a 03 FFL who winters in Florida. He certainly isn't going to be available if they come knocking at his northern house at whatever hour during January.
And I know gun stores that shut down completely during deer season for two weeks, and home based dealers like myself that take vacations for a WHOLE WEEK!!!!
ATF understands that a business or a collector IS NOT BOUND TO KEEP THEIR HOURS as detailed on the Form 7.....but they do want to know a convenient time to contact you. If you don't put down a time or day then they'll show up when they feel like it.
If your snowbird collector friend ignores ATF requests for a compliance inspection then he has no one to blame but himself when he loses his license.
ATF is more than willing to work with any licensee, as I noted above ATF called me and let me set up a time and day for both of my inspections. The second inspection occurred three weeks after ATF called to see if I would be available the next day. I wasn't. So the IOI and I scheduled a mutually agreeable day and time.
Did the IOI have to agree with my schedule? No.
