Bush to SUPPORT gun fingerprinting?

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ahenry

New member
So I take it you don’t have a solution you just want to complain about things. I am disappointed, I expected better from you. Did you vote in the last election? Are you going to vote in the next one? Who are you going to vote for? Pardon me if I have a hard time getting excited when you have something to say about politics given your (apparent) inability to provide an even half-assed solution.

Did it really take that many words to type "Since we're stuck in the Gulag and you can't organize a breakout, stop making fun of my favorite guard"?
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For the record, I have a solution or two and I’ve even presented them here. However I don’t expect anybody to actually do what is necessary to fix our current situation (what’s the last public office you ran for?). Moreover, what I said was far different than what you tried to twist it into. What I actually said was, we currently have two valid options when elections come up. One is don’t vote, the other is vote for somebody that isn’t all that great but he’s better than anything else. Should you get excited about him? No, and have I ever said you should? Where do you (or anybody else) get off bitching and moaning when you can’t even provide one solitary practical solution? That crusty old Navy Commander I once knew was right, “Don’t complain if you can’t (or won’t) work to fix whatever it is you have a problem with”. Few people ‘round here might ought to take that to heart.
 
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orlando5

New member
I take it you are talking to me. I have never miss a state or national election since I was 18 years old. I will admit that I something forgot to vote on local elections because they are held at odd years and don’t advertise it in local news that much. Who do I vote? I already answer that question. I will vote for the person that support my views. If none does I write myself in. That will be my vote.

Where do you (or anybody else) get off bitching and moaning when you can’t even provide one solitary practical solution?
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That is an easy one. The solution is to vote for someone that support your views if not write yourself in. Your solution is to be vote on someone that will stab you in the back the first chance they get. That is not a solution that is suicide.
 
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ahenry

New member
I’m not asking for much here, just a simple idea or two. I’m not real excited about the options either, however I’ll still do everything in my power to keep America as free as possible for as long as possible. The inevitable might very well actually be the inevitable, but even a stalling tactic is better than tossing in the towel. We do what you seem to be suggesting and it won’t be my grandkids that live in oppression it will be my kids or even you and I. Honestly what’s the legacy you are leaving?
 
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orlando5

New member
I’m not asking for much here, just a simple idea or two. I’m not real excited about the options either, however I’ll still do everything in my power to keep America as free as possible for as long as possible. The inevitable might very well actually be the inevitable, but even a stalling tactic is better than tossing in the towel. We do what you seem to be suggesting and it won’t be my grandkids that live in oppression it will be my kids or even you and I. Honestly what’s the legacy you are leaving?
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God, to linger is to suffer. I rather they take our freedom away right now then to prolong the suffering so we can start anew.
 
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ahenry

New member
So you are thinking along the lines of lets make it as bad as possible as soon as possible so that we can get the old gov’t out and put a new one in (I assume you would be thinking along the lines of a violent overthrow)? At least its an idea, I’ve even thought about it myself. To be honest I can’t actually argue that much with it except to say I don’t think there are more than one or two people in all of America that could re-establish what our Forefathers did.

I don’t fault somebody that says (and I paraphrase), “This candidate flat out lied. I will not vote for a liar, therefore I will not vote for him. I know my vote is wasted, but I can’t violate my conscience any longer. Moreover, the sooner things go down the tubes the sooner we can fix everything from the ground up”. I do fault somebody that says (more paraphrasing), “He sucks, and he’s not much better than the other guy so I’ll just sit at home and do nothing at all”. One scenario is grounded in principle, the other is grounded in petty “take my ball and go home” attitudes.
 
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Seeker

New member
No suprise that Bush is willing to look into "fingerprinting" after all it sounds good to the soccer moms.

50 million votes apiece in the last election
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So 100 million people voted? I find that had to believe, can you provide a citation?
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Myself, I vote Libertarian and have for a long time, even if they have no chance (as they are largely ignored by the media and when they do get mention we are told, by both parties, that to vote Libertarian is to waste our vote).

I would like to see "None of the Above" on the ballot though. After all how different is choosing Republicrat or Demican from the choice that ethe Iraqi people had "SaDamn: Yes/No"?
 
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klh8

New member
Yeah,that is all we need another socialist liberal in the White House.Not voting for Bush???Who the heck else is there to vote for.???Al Gore??Hillary Clinton?? Tom Daschle??Dickey Gephardt?? :barf:
Yea,lets put all them Liberal Commies back there and see how all of our guns rights go right down the tubes!!
I will take my chances with Bush. IF THERE IS ANOTHER POLITICIAN OUT THERE THAT STAND A CHANGE TO BEAT THESE POWER HUNGRY SOCILIST BUZZARDS IN AN ELECTION:pLease let me know.Right now,My rights and liberty rides with Buch.Just tell me please,who else is there who could defeat these Commie Hoards!!:mad:

All the freakin idoits that ran this country for their own power and greed in the last 2 adminsrtation BELONGS IN JAIL !!!!Coverups,Mysterous Murders,Selling SECRETS MISSLE TECH THE TO CHINEASE!!FBI FILE GATE!!!ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRBUTION!!
and many many many more. Read Gary Aldrish(SP)book of him being a FBI agent in the white house under the Scum Bag Clinton.It will make you sick in your stomach

Now you tell me who to vote for to keep this trashpit from forming again and I will VOTE FOR HIM!!!!!
 
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Thumper

New member
Folks, all he said was that he was looking into it.

Since we all know that ballistic fingerprinting is hogwash, don't you think that a very public study is a good way to get that info out there?

I certainly don't agree with everything he does, but some of you are seriously letting your anti-George bias show.

Foxnews reported yesterday that Dubya publicly said that legislating guns wasn't the answer to any of this.

Big picture's important here. He is STILL our guy.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Thumper,

What you and ahenry seem to be mistaking as an "anti George bias" may well be nothing of the sort. I'd aver that many here bitching voted for the man.

Is he better for our gun rights than Gore or most any of the pack of leftists that dominate the Democratic party these days? No doubt! However, I believe in calling a spade a spade, so when someone starts talking about how pro-gun he is, I feel this nagging urge to remind them that there's a huge difference between being "pro-gun" and being "less anti-gun than the other guy". Supporting magazine capacity restrictions is not "pro-gun", however being publically against new gun laws (save for banning the importation of mags and raising the age for posession of semiauto "assault weapons" to 21) is definitely "less anti-gun than the other guy".

Until there's a groundswell of public awareness that the present two-party system is going to continue offering us candidates that are like (as Dennis Miller put it in '92) "the choice between airline food and hospital food; both will keep you alive, but neither one has you floating in the air like the cartoon dog after he ate the biscuit". That awareness needs to come across the political spectrum. Yes, your average Democrat voter needs to be made aware that his candidate is a wannabe dictator of the Republic of Nice, but some GOP voters don't seem to be aware that the average Republican candidate ain't a real bowl of cherries, either. I hear it in gun stores all the time: "I got one of these dumb Klinton AK's with a thumbhole stock and no flash hider".
"No sir, you have a Bush AK with a thumbhole stock and no flash hider. Your AR, however, is a Klinton AR".
 
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CMichael

New member
Where did I say that in my post? None! I won't vote for Bush because he is not to be trusted. I don't vote for traitors. I don't vote for people that will take away my freedom. I vote for someone else that supports views, like myself.

You can vote for him all the way to jail if you wanted but I won't.<<


Go ahead and vote for Algore and count how many anti gun ownership rights laws there will be within a year .

Michael
 
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ahenry

New member
What you and ahenry seem to be mistaking as an "anti George bias" may well be nothing of the sort. I'd aver that many here bitching voted for the man.
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Who did you vote for? Perhaps I am wrong to think that you didn’t vote at all, but it is simple to correct me. I would love to have to admit that I was wrong in this. Just tell me who you voted for?

Is he better for our gun rights than Gore or most any of the pack of leftists that dominate the Democratic party these days? No doubt! However, I believe in calling a spade a spade, so when someone starts talking about how pro-gun he is, I feel this nagging urge to remind them that there's a huge difference between being "pro-gun" and being "less anti-gun than the other guy".
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But you aren’t calling a spade a spade. You are looking at a political situation and pretending its the same as a back porch meeting between old hunting buddies. Let me illustrate. Here in Texas we have a democratic candidate for an office that I know for a fact is actually a very strong pro-gunner. In a vacuum, I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. Politics being anything but a vacuum, I can’t see my way clear to vote for him. Cause as soon as I did, you know that some sort of pressure would be put on him to support his parties position. True “calling a spade a spade” in this Bush issue we have been discussing would be to say something like, “nice political move to head off the coming push for ballistic fingerprinting. Shoot, nothing kills an idea more quickly than studying it, while at the same time it keeps both sides happy. I hope he doesn’t cave. The smart thing for us to do, would be to make sure Bush remembers we are all out here watching his every move.” But I have yet to see you (or the others of the same bent), make a statement like that. Rather you say, “Bush sucks”. Soon’s you provide an intelligent alternative, I’ll pay attention to “Bush sucks” statements, until then I’ll take them for just what they are, bitching merely for the sake of bitching.
 
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Glock-A-Roo

New member
FWIW on NPR's "All Things Considered" yesterday they reported on Bush having ATF brief him on the techical aspects of a national "ballistic fingerprint" system. The final statement of the reporter was "...but the BATF already did such a study 5 months ago, and concluded that in the overwhelming majority of cases such a system would be highly beneficial to law enforcement".

Any bets on what they'll tell Bush this time around?

I don't know the facts behind that "5 months ago" statement. But does anyone have doubts as to ATF's likely response? Look at it this way, they're being offered the chance to get multiple millions of dollars in funding for a new national regulatory scheme that they would control, just like NFA/Class 3 stuff. Don't you think they'd jump at the chance for increased funding and more bureaucratic relevance? I do.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
ahenry,

Who did you vote for? Perhaps I am wrong to think that you didn’t vote at all, but it is simple to correct me. I would love to have to admit that I was wrong in this. Just tell me who you voted for?
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Since you're such an expert on my political views, I'll refrain from suggesting that you use the board's amazing "search" function for posts I made some four to six months before you joined. You know, around last election time.

Just tell me who you voted for?
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How amazingly presumptuous...


This is beginning to remind me of the old saw comparing arguing on the internet with running in the special olympics.
 
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ahenry

New member
Since you're such an expert on my political views, I'll refrain from suggesting that you use the board's amazing "search" function for posts I made some four to six months before you joined. You know, around last election time.
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I did that several days ago but was unable to locate anything, I have no desire to make an incorrect claim about something, which is why I have several times asked for you to please tell me. Obviously you don’t have to, but it would certainly help your credibility. Perhaps since you actually made the comment you could find that thread where you actually said who you voted for. Of course it would be just as easy to just type the 20 or 30 letters it would take to write one of the candidates names...

Is it that out of line for me to ask who you voted for? If you feel it is private a simple statement saying so would suffice. Its hardly a difficult question.

BTW, I was “around” quite a while before I joined. Matter of fact, I was here listening in on all the election discussions.
 
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Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
ahenry,

Obviously you don’t have to, but it would certainly help your credibility.
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If only I could convey just how little my "credibility" with you matters to me... ;)

FWIW, this last presidential election was the first one I didn't vote in, as I was in the middle of a move to TN and hadn't yet registered to vote in my new home state. Heck, I didn't even have a phone in my name here on election day.

Also, FWIW, when I grew up, my parents wouldn't even tell each other who they voted for. I received a stern lecture over the dinner table as a child on manners and the purpose of secret ballots when I inquired as to whom they'd voted for. Apparently a lecture that was never delivered to you.

Before every election you will see me hem and haw publically over the pros and cons of various candidates, maybe swinging back and forth until the moment of truth, but if you ever want to find out which box I tick, you're gonna need to find a way to get in the voting booth with me.

What you will not get from me is this "rah-rah" uncritical loyalty to one party or candidate that you see so often from others who have apparently confused politics with cheering for their favorite football team.



Let me illustrate. Here in Texas we have a democratic candidate for an office that I know for a fact is actually a very strong pro-gunner. In a vacuum, I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. Politics being anything but a vacuum, I can’t see my way clear to vote for him. Cause as soon as I did, you know that some sort of pressure would be put on him to support his parties position.
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Really? Back in Georgia we had more than one Democrat pol at the state level who was accused of being a "tool of the NRA". One of them gave a keynote address to that organization. I may have disagreed with them almost across the board on other issues, but on the gun thing, they were at least as pro-gun as any Republican president we've had in the last 20 years.
 
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Thumper

New member
Tam, I understand what you're saying concerning "better than Gore" and "pro gun." The thing is, I believe most of the time he's doing the best he can on the issue. I despise his (political) decision on the Patriot Act (among others) as much as you, but you have to admit, your criticism of the man has been awful vehement lately.

With regards to the Iraq situation, you've been flaming Bush so much that I keep looking around expecting to see Chuck Heston standing there with a big stone tablet. (Get it? :D )

I kill me.
 
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