Bush to SUPPORT gun fingerprinting?

papercut

New member
WGST radio in Atlanta just did a brief one-sentence report that Bush has reversed his earlier opinion on gun fingerprinting and will ask the ATF to investigate setting up a database.

Unable to find confirmation yet.
 

Christopher II

New member
Heh. We'll see...

I've been wondering recently what it would take for the hardcore GOP supporters to ditch Bush II and throw their support behind someone who really supports freedom. Will this be it?

- Chris
 

kjm

New member
Ya know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it all out. Anybody hell-bent on killing someone will simply have to go to the range (preferably where lots of police practice), and pick up the casings to leave laying around at the crime scene. Why doesn't anyone in the media mention this possibility?
 

klh8

New member
Well I just heard on FOX&FRIENDS that GW is inviting the ATF in the White House today to discuss the fingerprinting of firearms :eek: Still trust him a little more than all of them Democrats Socialists Hounds that has been on us over the last 3 decades.
 

dischord

New member
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=1581739
Bush Admin. to Study 'Fingerprinting' Guns
October 15, 2002 09:08 PM ET

By Adam Entous

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Reacting to a deadly series of sniper killings in the Washington area, the White House on Tuesday asked federal law enforcement officials to determine whether "ballistic fingerprinting" technology would be an effective crime fighting tool.

The White House appeared to have a change of heart about the issue after hours earlier expressing doubts about the reliability of such technology and saying it could undermine rights of law abiding gun owners.

The system uses markings from bullets and shell casings like fingerprints to link specific handguns with gun crimes.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said White House domestic policy officials met with representatives of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. "We have asked the ATF to have their experts look into and explore the issues involved to determine if this would be an effective crime-fighting tool" McClellan said.

He said the officials were asked to look into the feasibility and technology, as well as law enforcement experiences in New York and Maryland, two states where ballistic fingerprinting progams are in place.

Earlier, the Bush administration had taken a more dismissive attitude. "New laws don't stop people like this," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said of the sniper, who has killed nine people in two weeks.

"What we must do is ... enforce the laws we have so that people who commit crimes, especially crimes with guns, will be fully prosecuted and serve time."

RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS

Fleischer said ballistic markings can be easily altered, rendering the "fingerprints" useless. He also suggested a mandatory system of ballistics monitoring could violate the privacy of lawful gun owners.

"It's like saying, do you want to fingerprint every single American, or do you want to just have fingerprints for people who you believed were involved in a crime," Fleischer told reporters. "The president does believe that law-abiding citizens have the right to bear arms."

Gun control groups say the case of the sniper underscored the need for a national "ballistic fingerprinting" law, which would require firearms be test-fired before they were sold and their unique "fingerprints" entered into a computer database accessible to law enforcement agencies.

Although New York and Maryland already keep such records, gun control groups say a national law covering all firearms is needed to give police the tools they need to track shooters like the Washington-area's elusive sniper.

"If you ask any of the hundreds of investigators working to find the sniper, they would very much like to know where the gun first was sold and who first bought it. If we had a national ballistics fingerprinting system in place, they probably would have that information," said Matt Bennett, director of public affairs at Americans for Gun Safety.

Legislation has already been introduced in Congress to create a national system but supporters concede prospects for passage are slim.

The House of Representatives on Tuesday approved separate legislation that would give states incentives to improve databases used in gun background checks. The Senate has yet to act on the measure, which does not expand checks but makes them more accurate because states will supply more complete data.
 

Ben Swenson

New member
Heh ... to butcher a quote from our good friend Zander ...
Gee...where are all the Bush-lovers who insist he is "pro-gun"? Inconvenient for their argument, I suppose.
I suppose now we'll be told "oh no, don't worry about it - it's just political posturing ... he won't really do anything ... that's the way politics work."
 

Monkeyleg

New member
Playing devil's advocate here:

The surest way to let an issue go into deep hibernation in Washington is to order a "study" on it.
 

Gary H

New member
I'm far from a Bush lover, but he does need some political cover until after the elections. He might as well firmly commit to look at things ..kindof.
 

orlando5

New member
I'm far from a Bush lover, but he does need some political cover until after the elections. He might as well firmly commit to look at things ..kindof.

What he just did is committed political suicide. Bush forgot who put him in power. VA Governor Warner knew better. He kept his mouth shut. Bush should have done the same thing.
 

PeteyPete

New member
If this becomes law, i'm maxing my credit cards on unfingerprinted guns, and i'll do everything in my power to make sure Bush is not re-elected. This is F'in ridiculous!!@@#:mad:
 

Zander

Moderator
What he just did is committed political suicide. -- orlando5
So you'll be voting 'Democrat' on Nov. 5th, eh? It seems that for some, long-term planning is considering what'll be for lunch tomorrow.

I suppose now we'll be told "oh no, don't worry about it - it's just political posturing ... he won't really do anything ... that's the way politics work." -- Cordex
Well, yes...that's my opinion. With Congress about to go on recess [how apropos!] and the assignment "given" to the BATboys, we'll just have to twiddle our thumbs [NOT!]. I have no illusion about the conclusion of this "study". It'll be in favor of the system...after all, isn't the purpose of gummint agencies to further their own budget and agenda?

That doesn't mean that the recommendation will be accepted...we'll just have to wait and see. 'Twould be interesting to determine what time-frame the BATboys have been given; my guess is well into next year.

Long after the election is over, that is... <shrug>
 

CZ_

New member
Bush, in my opinion, fears that the liberals are ready to vote him out in 2004, so he is "compromising" on this issue a bit. All politians will compromise to suit their careers. Its not good, but its necessary in that (IMO crooked) profession.

Look at it this way, Bush is a heck of a lot better than any liberal politican out there (such as Gore--who would just assume BAN all guns).

Hard core conservatives don't have a chance in today's America, so I don't recommend trying to vote Bush out of the Republican primaries in 2004. Its the moderate liberals/conservatives that have the best chance of being elected. Look at California, we got a big time right wing guy representing the Republican party, and now he is getting creamed by Davis (who isn't even liked by some liberals). Riorden (sp?), being somewhat moderate conservative, really would have had a better chance against Davis, but lost in the Republican primaries.

What I'm saying is we should NOT go jumping the bandwaggon and label Bush as anti-gun, when in reality most of the other people with a decent chance to win in 2004 are likely MORE anti-gun than Bush. Sadly, sometimes we have to vote for the "less evil", rather than the good, in my opinion.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Sadly, sometimes we have to vote for the "less evil", rather than the good, in my opinion.

Keep that up, folks, and you'll eventually "less evil" yourselves right into an outright gun ban...
 

Monkeyleg

New member
Oh, for the days when a politician could say the following (granted, he wasn't elected, though):

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more
efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote
welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to
repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones
that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed in their purpose,
or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not
attempt to discover whether legislation is 'needed' before I have first
determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later
be attacked for neglecting my constituents' interests, I shall reply that I
was informed their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am
doing the very best I can."

- Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.), "The Conscience of a Conservative"
 

CZ_

New member
Keep that up, folks, and you'll eventually "less evil" yourselves right into an outright gun ban...

Likewise, if you "throw" your votes away by voting only for the "good" polititians (hypothetically, someone like those small party folks that have NO chance to win, or a severe right wing Republican--which can't win in todays America), you are essentially allowing the worst person possible to be in office--someone like Gore or Clinton, at least IMO.

FWIW, I'm personally a conservative liberatarian (NOT to be confused with liberal BTW) that believes strongly in personal rights, but I don't think it makes sense to vote for a candidate that has NO chance of winning, even if he/she does appear to be good. Why even vote if you are going to throw it away? For that matter, after all the polititains I've seen pass through the various offices, I don't believe what ANY of them have to say anymore, regardless of party. Nearly all of them will lie through their teeth to get elected.

I suppose if enough people voted with their heart, things could get better, but I don't see a third party (which wasn't Republican or Democrat) having a chance to win a major presidential election for a long time.
 

ahenry

New member
Tamara (I say you because you had the poster child response, but I direct my point to all that hold the same view*),

Lets suppose you could do the impossible and get every single member of TFL to vote the way you would like (still waiting to hear what that is BTW). Further lets suppose that that each member convinced 10 people by the next election (lets be simple and ignore any potential compounding effect, hell I’m giving you massive numbers as it is). By a very generous approximation that gives you 170,000 votes going where you think they would do the most good (feel free to let us know just who that would be...) in the next election. What are 170,000 votes going to do? Seriously, tell me. Shoot, lets just get down to brass tacks here, cut out the B.S. and make it an even five hundred thousand voting exactly where you think they should vote. Just exactly who would that put in office? You know what it would have done in the last presidential election? Put Gore in there. Hell if you combined all the third part votes and added all of us here and our converts you still wouldn’t have changed anything. Given that the top two parties got about 50 million votes apiece in the last election you either vote for them or stay home (don’t construe this to mean I like this situation). Now if you want to make some argument that the current political system is effectively broken and its time to toss the existing system out and makeup a new one, I’d be interested. However, since all I see you do is bitch about how bad Republicans are (and believe you mean, I certainly don’t think they’re anything special) I’d like to hear just what solution you actually have (again this is just directed at you since you made the comment, but it is really towards everybody that feels this way*). Feel free to moan and complain as loud and long as you want, just don’t expect to convince anybody until you come up with something at least half way workable to fix the problem. Most people like to complain about problems but not very many have much in the way of solutions. I’d sure like to think you have one. If you do, please share with the rest of us.



*None of these comments directed at you should be taken personally. You are just the most likely to respond and made the most blatant comment along these lines.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
I’d sure like to think you have one. If you do, please share with the rest of us.

Did it really take that many words to type "Since we're stuck in the Gulag and you can't organize a breakout, stop making fun of my favorite guard"?

Because Candidate A wants to take a lot of my rights away, but Candidate B only wants to take some, I'm supposed to say good things about Candidate B?

"Well gee, at least that mugger didn't hit me too hard. And he left me five bucks! What a humanitarian!"

Please.

Praise him to your heart's content, man, if that's what you want, but don't expect me to join in.
 

orlando5

New member
So you'll be voting 'Democrat' on Nov. 5th, eh? It seems that for some, long-term planning is considering what'll be for lunch tomorrow.

Where did I say that in my post? None! I won't vote for Bush because he is not to be trusted. I don't vote for traitors. I don't vote for people that will take away my freedom. I vote for someone else that supports views, like myself.

You can vote for him all the way to jail if you wanted but I won't.
 
Top