Bush "minutemen vigilantes". Offended? Poll

[Charley]

Funny thing is...I remember when President Bush asked all of Americans to become "vigilant." "Remain vigilant," he said over and again.

He should have dropped down one word in the dictionary; he would have found
Vigilante: a member of a self-appointed group of people who try to prevent crime and disorder in a community where law enforcement is imperfect or has broken down.

I accept the term. Beats "President who has dropped the ball" any day!

Good luck to all.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Gang will target Minuteman vigil on Mexico border

By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

NACO, Ariz. -- Members of a violent Central America-based gang have been sent to Arizona to target Minuteman Project volunteers, who will begin a monthlong border vigil this weekend to find and report foreigner sneaking into the United States, project officials say.

James Gilchrist, a Vietnam veteran who helped organize the vigil to protest the federal government's failure to control illegal immigration, said he has been told that California and Texas leaders of Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, have issued orders to teach "a lesson" to the Minuteman volunteers.

"We're not worried because half of our recruits are retired trained combat soldiers," Mr. Gilchrist said. "And those guys are just a bunch of punks."

<snip>

Read the rest of the article here: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050328-125306-7868r.htm

Little good can come of this situation. The minutemen (who are doing the "observational work" that the Border Patrol should be doing) will be villified in the press if any violence breaks out, regardless of whether they are simply defending themselves or not. The press will say that "they were asking for trouble by going out there." Odd that the press wouldn't say the same thing about a "suggestively dressed" woman walking downtown at night who gets molested...

 

[mete]

It's interesting that CNN just had an item about vigilantes in Iraq.A major problem there is kidnapping for ransom. The new fledgling government is unable to stop it so neighborhhoods are forming vigilante groups to protect themselves . It's OK for Iraqis but not OK for Americans !!!!

 

[rugerdude]

We are slowly losing America to illegal immigrants. We are one KICK A** country and we are losing that because appearantly the big wigs don't care so much about preserving this great nation than they do the latino vote. Can't we get a presidential candidate that has the guts to say "Hey, I'm proud to be an American and I will not see illegal immigrants discrace this country."

My hat is off to the immigrants that came here to be Americans and to get American citizenship because they care enough to support this nation rather than mooch off of it. I imagine it is pretty easy to live here as an illegal these days, and that is why immigrants that go through the naturalization process are so great.

I also greatly respect the people watching that border when the people who are paid to do it have failed or are simply not backed enough by our government to do their job effectively.

Well that's my rant, flames in private, logical arguments public please.
regards,
rugerdude

 

[Rojoe67]

Border....

I agree with most of Ruger's statement above.

I find the south border issue my biggest complaint with the Bush administration. Seems like it needs a heck of a lot more attention than it's getting. If a private citizen group has to step in and try to fix a multi million dollar spending issue that's failing - then it's time for the Feds right to the top to brain storm some ideas and plans. I tip my hat to these folks for the mission they are trying to complete. The Feds fear the private citizens for what reason? Honestly they fear the citizen group because they will show how sorry the Feds are doing with our tax dollars down there. I also salute the Border Patrol for the huge work load and limited forces to do it.....


History will tell this story - I hope it has a good outcome.

 

[progunner1957]

Coming to a border near you: Dead Minutemen??

The MS-13 gang has bragged that they will "teach the Minutemen a lesson." The Minutemen are being prohibited from bringing rifles, and can only have pistols if they have a CCW permit.

Let's put two and two together here. It sounds like the Minutemen are going to be bulletstoppers for MS-13.

My understanding of laws governing long guns is that with the possible exception of D.C., CA, IL, MA and NY and national parks, lawful citizens may bear long guns as they wish with no permit - that was the case in the past; is that not the case now?

If bearing long guns is NOT prohibited in Arizona, why are the Minutemen being told to show up with virtually no means of self protection in the fase of MS-13's threats?? Last time I checked, pistol vs. rifle at 300 yards = dead pistolero 999 times out of 1000.

Even though I voted for him, I am becoming more and more disappointed in "W". He needs to grow a pair and tell El Presidente Fox of Mexico to keep his "citizens" away from our border or be prepared for heaps of corpses.

More than 8200 illegals violate our southern border EVERY day, 365 days a year.

Mr. President, DO YOUR JOB and stop this invasion!!!

 

[tyme]

Progunner, it's even worse than that. Open carry of long guns and pistols is legal in Arizona, no state permission required. Only concealed carry requires a permit.

If bearing long guns is NOT prohibited in Arizona, why are the Minutemen being told to show up with virtually no means of self protection in the fase of MS-13's threats??

Political reasons. Like many State governments, the people running the Minutemen Project are less concerned about volunteers' lives than about the bad publicity if a volunteer has to shoot an illegal in self defense.

 

[jimpeel]

The border problem would be solved in three weeks flat if all of the states started shipping all of the illegals they arrest on one-waty flightsd to Dulles and Reagan international airports. An influx of 15 or 20 thousand illegals into the DC area would get the attention of Congress pretty quickly. They say the states have to support their illegals and maybe it is time they saw what their policies are doing close up and personal.

 

[seeker_two]

Somehow, I think MS-13--if they're stupid enough to try anything--will be surprised at just how many rifles appear "out of thin air" in the hands of the Minutemen...

Get ready for the Great Arizona Vato (guess that's Spanish for "turkey") Shoot....

 

[rugerdude]

If they think that they should bring rifles then they will bring them because they are not breaking any laws so who's to stop them from adequately protecting themselves? Man, if I were old enough I'd be sittin' out there with my lee enfield no.4mk1 and sks. I don't care how "bad it would look politically" you know what, peoples lives should come before politics!....sadly it doesn't always happen that way.

 

[Vanguard.45]

Apparently, the President is NOT a Conservative.

Globalist.

Semi-Socialist.

Federalist.

Politician.

But Not a Conservative.

That's why I am a Libertarian.

 

[LAK]

Vanguard .45,

George W Bush has made it clear for a long time now where his loyalties lie. But if you think that the Libertarians have a different idea on borders and immigration you haven't read their platform fully.

 

[seeker_two]

Vanguard.45: Come on in......the platform's just fine...

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

If They Change Their Name, Maybe Better Response

I like the idea behind the Minuteman Project -- sort of a Border "Neighborhood Watch". Come to think of it, something along that line might even get them a better response from the government and the media.

By using the name Minuteman in the context of today's media, it makes them easy to portray in the media as a bunch of scary, tobacco-spitting, pot-bellied, militia-minded, redneck, racist cop wanna-bes.

By contrast, the term 'Neighborhood Watch' portrays an image of neighborly, friendly, law-abiding citizens who are supplementing the eyes of law enforcement. Which is EXACTLY what the Minuteman Project is designed to do: observe and report.

So if they used a "Neighborhood Watch Border Project" name (or something similar), even if the media doesn't like it they would find it hard to portray them negatively, in my opinion.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Personally, I wouldn't associate with a group whose leadership tells me to go out into the middle of nowhere to "observe" people doing illegal things without a rifle, shotgun and handgun. That's just as stupid as the president's "vigilante" remarks.

I imagine the Minuteman group would disassociate themselves as quickly as possible (in a "minute" more or less) from a guy who uses a rifle to shoot someone who he thought was a threat. No thanks. I'll do my Minutemanning solo.....Too many politics othewise. Organized Minutemanning should be left to a group with very good lawyers and insurance.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Bush "minutemen vigilantes". Offended? Poll

Our President can be a real idiot sometimes. This is certainly one of them.

Every body seems to be interested in the latino's coming across - take a look at the Canadians comin' down!

I've pretty much had it with Canadians myself. They created such a socialist paradise for themselves one would think they would never leave. Oddly enough places like Washington state are crawling with them.

Back to beautiful downtown Canuckistan with them* I say. I couldn't care less if it means that I would need to obtain a passport and visa to go north. I wouldn't give them the time of day. Why would I want to go there and give them my money?


*Canadians with brains enough to not be socialists are excepted from this personal policy.

 

[drinks]

Mm

Seeker;
Do you mean vastago?
Turkey is Guahalote, or as food, Pavo.[Pavo actually means Peacock, but for some reason, it is used for turkey as food].
Dubwa really thought he would scare off a bunch of people when he sent 500 more agents to Arizona at the last minute , did not seem to be very effective.
The PRESS is up to their usual anti American bull s''', reporting the group in the worst possible light.
The government, all the politicians, all the high level burecrats and most government employees , just have a conniption fit anytime citizens remind the government that all power is delegated to the government by the people, that the government employees, elected, appointed or hired , are there to do the work the people hired them for.
Dubya is a fascist, Kerry is a communist one worlder, both should be running for cover, the people seem to be starting to take back their grants of duties, not powers to the government.
If your hired help, the government ,will not defend your country against criminal alien invaders, as the press should refer to them as, not migrants, if your hired help, including Dubwa, are so busy kissing a''" on old Zorro [aka, Vicente Fox] to worry about such minor things as laws and oaths , then the Militia refered to in the second ammendment, should form up and throw the scoundrels out on their sorry b"""'s
Just my opinion!
Don

 

[smokinron]

We see the problem with illegals here in Ks every day. They move to town, don't pay taxes, don't have health or any other kind of insurance (and almost broke our local hospital), all the while sending a majority of their paychecks back to Mexico.
I can only imagine what its like in Texas or the Republic of Mexifornia!
I say seal the borders at all costs! Even if the Gov't has to take a 100foot strip of land along the border & plant land mines, & patrol it with Apache Gunships, I say do what ever it takes!

"My 1911 beats your 911"...

 

[shootinstudent]

I can only imagine what its like in Texas or the Republic of Mexifornia!
I say seal the borders at all costs! Even if the Gov't has to take a 100foot strip of land along the border & plant land mines, & patrol it with Apache Gunships, I say do what ever it takes!

Grew up in California and live in Texas. The infrastructure in California is better than any midwestern or southern state I've ever seen. Also, to Jimpeel above...Washington DC is one of the cities most heavily populated with immigrants (legal and illegal) in the country.

Seriously, I mean, it's one thing to argue about immigration based on costs versus benefits. But what is the point of saying "stop them at all cost!"? Immigrants benefit people in the united states, so let's have a discussion about who and how they benefit to go along with that discussion of cost. Personally, I think this country is headed for a major economic disaster without massive immigration. The baby boomers got old without having many kids, and they don't die young...so pretty soon we're going to have a whole lot of old folks, and not a lot of youngin's to support them.

On the minuteman topic, I think Bush's loyalties lay with a variety of groups, as do the loyalties of all national politicians who want to keep their jobs. The republican party is making a move on hispanic voters and it is also looking to the future of labor and business in America, and I'm fine with that.

Still, whatever my opinion on the project, it's silly to be out in the desert with nothing besides a handgun. I can see why the minutemen organizers don't wnat it though. If some racist radical signs up and shoots a hapless, unarmed immigrant, that will be the end of their movement. I think they're actually trying to do the anti-immigration movement a favor by taking steps to prevent that from happening.

 

[riverkeeper]

"Every immigrant should be stopped...

at the border, given an M16 and a case of ammunition, turned around and sent back to their country to solve their problems in the traditional manner."

Approximate quote from Ed Abbey