Burglar Shot Through Door

[nate45]

Okay, I was wrong, it was a solid wooden door. Too bad the Chief of Police and Florida Law says the home owner is in the clear.


Too bad for Tyler Orshoski that its, the poor, misguided career criminal.

Daytona man, 82, shoots burglar dead

 

[cloud8a]

Here is a link to the Carter story. just posting it because it is a shot through the door relation.

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/sep/03/dallas-man-shoots-and-kills-neighbor-mistaking-him/

 

[Double Naught Spy]

He fired through a door and killed someone outside his home? Is this acceptable under Florida law?

There isn't anything in Florida law saying you can't shoot through a door to stop a threat that you believe may cause you serious harm or death.

Shooting through a door because you think someone has evil intent is in violation of at least one of the four immutable laws. You can't know the target and you can't really know your background.

This doesn't appear to be correct and violating these aren't all that relevant to the legal aspects of the event. As for being immutable laws, the rules of gun safety are very mutable and have changed many times over the years.

Okay, I was wrong, it was a solid wooden door.

Actually, you were right to question why folks assumed that the homeowner could not see the bad guy. Part of the door may be solid wood, but the windows in the door are not.


Maybe what your should have questioned is why everyone thinks the guy was a simple burglar. The suspect had reason to believe that the home would not be empty at that time of day and from the noises he made, he apparently wasn't a cat burglar.

I do know burglarizing isn't worthy of the death penalty nor killing someone over.

Maybe that is the question the suspect should have been asking himself before attempting a home intrusion where the home was likely occupied.

If somebody was trying to break in your door while you were at home, would you really be thinking that the criminal was there just to commit burglary or would you feel your life was in jeopardy?

 

[2damnold4this]

Good pic of the door. I wondered if the home owner could see the burglar and it appears that he could easily see through the glass panels.

 

[Flopsweat]

...how many of us have seen that video on a reality show? Smoke was from one house over but appeared to be from the wrong one, and the firefighter got no response when he knocked; broke in the door, and found a confused - but reasonable and appreciative - little old lady...

This it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsWwlPcOgMY

If you watch this, do watch all the way to the end. The lady is very charming.

 

[Ruthless4christ]

All I got to say.

Doors are expensive.

 

[K_Mac]

Double Naught Spy just for the sake of conversation, which of the four rules has changed over the years?

 

[overkill0084]

It was 0615 when this occurred. The odds that someone is home at that hour are very good. As I understand things (correct me if I'm wrong), if there is no one home, it's a burglary, if it's occupied, it's a home invasion. Kind of ups the risk.
A similar incident occurred here about a year ago. Perp was shot through a sliding door. No charges were even considered.

 

[hogdogs]

If I have a visual of any sort as to where he is standing... (window door or window beside door etc...) Why would I wait and allow the threat to escalate to a level I lose some control over??? Why wait until I have to not only replace at least 2 rounds of buck shot but a lockset and possibly entire prehung door assembly... He has the tools and intent... I rather duct tape over a couple 3-5 inch holes in the door so I can get some rest after the cops leave...

Last thing I would want to do after a justified self defense situation is go door and/or window shoppin' at Lowe's Depot to get my humble hovel back to a semi-secure state... Not to mention My family will need me to comfort them and provide the sense of security I always provide.

Brent

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The four laws are not immutable. They are not physical laws of the universe like the speed of light or the acceleration due to gravity.

They are heuristic devices to help remember how NOT to screw up.

Independent of this event, circumstances do vary. When Cooper creates a universe, then they will be immutable.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Right.

Double Naught Spy just for the sake of conversation, which of the four rules has changed over the years?

Google gun safety rules and look at the countless variations. Cooper's 4 rules were not original to Cooper, but he picked and chose the 4 he thought were most important and codified them into a set. Cooper's 4 rules are expressed in several different manners by folks or groups that adhere to them but tweak them to their liking. The NRA has their set of rules. The Canadian military has their set. Remington has 10 rules I believe they call commandments (IIRC) and their rules expanded to 10 after problems with the Rem 700 rifles. Some other places just list three rules. Various shooting organizations have their rules for gun safety.

Cooper's gun rules are not adhered to by everybody, not even Cooper.

If Cooper's rules were the only rules and were recapitulated exactly as they were first given, or when Cooper creates the universe, then they might be immutable.

Here is a quick link discussing some of the different versions...
http://www.thegunzone.com/therules.html

 

[K_Mac]

DNS thanks for the link. It presents an intelligent discussion of different perspectives.

I believe that the four rules, as originally written, are a definitive codified set and have not changed at all since they were written. I also believe they have always been the de facto standard for safe handling of a firearm since the beginning of time. I understand that a woodenly literal interpretation of rule one is silly, but in context it is always valid. We can use a different list, word it to try to make it more acceptable to some, or deny it entirely; but, it does not change the fundamental rules as expressed by Cooper IMHO.

 

[Mr. James]

Robbins is my hero!

"I was protecting myself," Robbins told reporters. "I got him before he could get me and I did a good thing."

Darned straight he did!

"He stuck himself out there to get killed and he got it," the octogenarian said.

Where's Strother Martin when you need him? Good work, Mr. Robbins. And he used a Russian-built Tokarev.

Police Chief Chitwood is no slouch, either.

From the article linked by nate45, it sounds as if this is yet another once-pleasant neighborhood descending into a morass of drug use, criminality and predation. Well, one less predator now.

 

[dajowi]

At the time the 82 year old man shot the guy, his life was not endangered. The use of lethal force wasn't appropriate at the time of the shooting. I'm not saying that the bad guy didn't deserve it - but there could be legal consequences.

 

[Crazy88Fingers]

I suppose I'll repeat myself. Florida Statute 776.013 

Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

Emphasis added.

 

[Dwight55]

At the time the 82 year old man shot the guy, his life was not endangered. The use of lethal force wasn't appropriate at the time of the shooting. I'm not saying that the bad guy didn't deserve it - but there could be legal consequences.

Thankfully, in the state of Ohio, . . . this wouldn't get past square 1. The thug was not breaking in because he didn't get a Sunday School lesson last week.

This was "ending the threat" of great bodily harm or death, . . . at the hands of an armed, willing, and "in the process" of crime, criminal.

May God bless,
Dwight