Brandishing Problems

[pax]

I've tried pants pocket carry with four handguns,,,

22/25-PLY
LCR
LC9
S&W 36


There is no way I can get a quick draw,,,
Even with my loosest old-man pants.

Try the very good-looking pants sold here: CCW Breakaways.

You almost have to see them in person to understand how they work, but they are worth every penny for pocket carry. Very fast, very flexible, very well concealed even when carrying guns a little too large for traditional pocket carry. You can easily draw from the pocket while sitting down, too.

And did I mention they look good? Just regular nice slacks.

Several of my friends use them and love them. They don't make 'em for girls is the only reason I don't use them myself, but I surely would if they did. They are that good.

pax

 

[45_auto]

I have handled several pistols (not mine) with tru-glo and I agree that it is easily superior while point shooting.

You use the sights when you're "point shooting"? You have a very different definition of "point shooting" than is commonly used.

Point shooting, also known as target focused shooting or instinctive shooting, is a method of shooting a firearm quickly and accurately that does not rely on the use of the sights in close quarters, life-threatening situations where there is the greatest chance being shot.

 

[Brit]

Point shooting? Is pointing your pistol at a target, I have never, ever done any good when "Hip shooting" A six round portion of the Security Officer stupid yearly Re-Ql. That a untrained Monkey could pass.

What I think point shooting is, draw, as quick as possible, push pistol forward, press trigger. This does not put my pistol at belt level, but rather more at mid chest, and my lower vision can see that blink of the TruGlo green bright dots!

The difference of aimed, up to eye level, is dependent on target/aggressor distance.

 

[kraigwy]

A huge majority of sd shooting occurs about 5-6 feet. Close to arms length.

At that distance you run the risk of the bandit grabbing or pushing at your handgun.

Hip shooting training is a valuable tool that should be practiced.

To understand point shooting where I talk of pointing the finger as a guide can be demonstrated by changing the targets.

For example switching from a USPSA target with a threat target, or a target that has the bandit holding a gun or knife.

Take your student and have him fire at the USPSA target. He/she will tend to point and shoot center mass.

Now switch the target. You'll see that the shots drift to the picture of the threat, gun/knife, because one tends to look at the threat.

Of course this only works if the student doesn't know you are testing him/her. If you give advance notice then they will subconsciously try to shoot center mass ignoring the threat on the target.

 

[FireForged]

You use the sights when you're "point shooting"? You have a very different definition of "point shooting" than is commonly used

No, I dont.. did you read what I said about it? I intuitively point by using the end of the barrel which remains in my field of vision ( below eye level) as I focus on the threat. The gun is in my periphery and a brightly colored fiber only aides in the process. I am not using a sight picture

This is that I said:

As far as the explanation of what point shooting is in this thread.. it seems to be a rather literal interpretation and reminiscent of the early 1900's. I do not subscribe to that method as the reliance on pointing your finger can be a precarious endeavor during ongoing fighting. I prefer to rely on intuitive pointing of a firearm without the use of a finger as a guide or sights. I only use the end of the barrel as it remains below eye level but within my field of view.

 

[zombietactics]

I've met and shot with Kraig.
I've been shooting 50 years,and when Kraig speaks,I listen. ...

I mean no disrespect to you or your friend, but an appeal to gray hair (which I have as well, thanks) is not necessarily an appeal to reason or expertise.

For every wizened old sage in our age group, there are probably a thousand or more grizzled-old-coots, who just spout nonsense. Note the ignorant geezers spouting nonsense about "knockdown power", for instance. Consider also the "young turks" who repeat that drivel. Doesn't seem like youth necessarily confers an advantage either.

Knowing the difference between gold, fools-gold or dirt requires an appeal to something other than age, hence age becomes a non-factor.

Reason, logic, evidence and demonstrable fact are enough. An appeal to something else is a con-man's dodge.

 

[zombietactics]

... I intuitively point by using the end of the barrel which remains in my field of vision ( below eye level) as I focus on the threat. The gun is in my periphery and a brightly colored fiber only aides in the process. I am not using a sight picture ...

I dunno ... sounds suspiciously like a "flash sight picture", if you have any perception of the brightly-colored fiber (optic).

Point-shooting more typically refers to any kind of kinesthetic alignment of the gun ... of the type one gets when pointing at an object, although not literally pointing with a finger.

Maybe you are splitting the difference in between?

 

[Frank Ettin]

... sounds suspiciously like a "flash sight picture",...

Yup. The flash sight picture (Morrison, Gregory, The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991, pp 87 - 88, emphasis added):

...The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistol fighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

...Using the flash sight-picture programs the reflex of aligning the weapon’s sights with the target instantly....There is good reason for sights: one needs them to align the barrel with the target reliably....

 

[HiBC]

Well,Zombie.....

We do agree grey hair does not imply a resume.

I think maybe you are making a whole lot of assumptions and there is a whole lot you don't know about about the people under some of that grey hair.

And they don't feel any real good reason to tell you about it.

 

[Evan Thomas]

There's no need to get personal, folks. It's fine to disagree, but let's base our arguments on facts and reasoning, OK?

 

[Brit]

Vanya,

What are you doing up so late?

All this talk of Grey Hair? Mine has been White for a while.

I remember Sykes and Fairburn's transporting their training methods to the US of A, during WW11, from the Shanghai Police Force.

And the one hand stance, crouching, with the pistol above belt level, in an illustration. A method I have tried on occasion.

Said crouch is where we tend to go under stress, a sudden loud sound will cause that lowering, right quick. Being in any kind of violence in a job, helps in overcoming that freeze to the spot, untrained individuals can go into.

 

[zincwarrior]

***Sorry couldn't help these replies. Its Wednesday.

An example: You are filling your vehicle at a gas station. While at the pump, here comes Mr. Scruffy, a weird looking dude coming up to your pump and car. Looks like a possible car jacking maybe. OR, maybe Mr. Scruffy is an employee ( some do look weird) and is just coming up to record the numbers at the pump. Do you draw your pistol just in case?
***Of course you do.

Or you're at an ATM withdrawing money, some guy comes up behind you and waiting and watching...... is he waiting to get your money or is he waiting to use the ATM? Do you draw your piston just in case?
***Of course you do. Put two rounds in the ground to be extra safe.

The problem is, if you draw you pistol and the guy at the pump is an employee, or the guy at the ATM is waiting to use the ATM is waiting his turn, then you are in fact brandishing, or worse committing assault.
***That’s what the two in the ground are for. It’s a polite reminder that snitches get stitches.

You should be ready, yet you cant be waiving your gun around.
***Unless you have a gold bracelet. Then its epic cool.


The answer is ability to draw from concealment instantly, less then 0.5 seconds. If you can't then you need to re-evaluate your training or method of carry or both.
***I never thought of that. It would cut down on all the police cars trying t pull me over all the time, just because a man is driving along with his slice the pie tacticool AR47 hanging out the window.



This is a report of a family being waken up in the middle of the night with loud banging on his door in the middle of the night. Occurring in a town that normally pulls in its sidewalks at 9 PM.
***Get loud dogs, that way no one goes to sleep at 9PM from all the barking. The neighbors will be happy they don’t have to go to sleep early.


The guy peeps out the door sees no one.
*** Put two rounds in the ground to be extra safe.

Wife goes to the children while the man steps out on the porch with his pistol to investigate.
***See if you put two rounds in the ground you wouldn’t have to step outside. Its scary outside.
Why is someone banging on his door in the middle of the night?
***Candygram or is it…land shark!

When he steps out on the porch he is immediately "ambushed" by the police who sees a guy with a gun who may be a danger to the officers.
***That’s why I don’t leave the house, because the police are just waiting to take me away…er ambush me.

It could have turned out a lot worse, the guy could have shot the officers whom he assumed were trying to get in his home or the officers could have shot the home owner thinking they were in danger.
***Thank goodness he was holding that can of beer and wearing just a stale T shirt.

But the Grace of God interfered and no one was hunt.

This brings me back to my point, if the home owner stepped out with the pistol concealed yet could been put to use instantly, he could have been ready if it was a home invader, OR, he could have instantly produced empty hands when he saw they were officers.
**Put two rounds in the ground to be extra safe.

Its about how you carry, what you carry and the training and practice producing your handgun.
***I carry a lb of bacon everywhere, in case the bears attack I can throw the bacon. But you’re idea of drawing real fast might work too. Maybe.

Moral of the story, you're not really prepared unless you're carrying bacon.

 

[zincwarrior]

As to the man who walked out onto his porch in the middle of the night after being awakened by knocking on his door and seeing no one through the peephole -- wasn't his first mistake leaving the safety of his home knowing someone unseen is out there?

Exactly. Its Zincwarrior policy never to answer the door.


Instead, I make the wife do it.




(seriously yes thats an exceedingly bad idea).

 

[pax]

And ... I think this thread has run its course.

Thanks to all who stayed on the high road for a good discussion.

pax

Remember: be gentle. There's a person on the other side of that screen.